{"id":4303,"date":"2023-07-02T07:18:03","date_gmt":"2023-07-02T07:18:03","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/brandon-turner-on-crash-prophecies-hawaii-house-hacks-and-nickelback-bets\/"},"modified":"2023-07-02T07:18:03","modified_gmt":"2023-07-02T07:18:03","slug":"brandon-turner-on-crash-prophecies-hawaii-house-hacks-and-nickelback-bets","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/brandon-turner-on-crash-prophecies-hawaii-house-hacks-and-nickelback-bets\/","title":{"rendered":"Brandon Turner on Crash Prophecies, Hawaii House Hacks, and Nickelback Bets"},"content":{"rendered":"


\n<\/p>\n

Brandon Turner is back! <\/strong>That\u2019s right, live from the Sea Shed are your beloved BiggerPockets hosts, Brandon and David! Can you feel the bromance brewing through your speakers, or is it just us? David flew out to attend one of Brandon\u2019s recent events and conduct a two-part interview<\/strong> with one of the most popular property investors <\/strong>on the planet! And boy, oh boy, has Brandon been busy!<\/p>\n

In this episode, David puts Brandon in the hot seat, going through a fire round of top-asked questions<\/strong> to get Brandon\u2019s input on not just real estate but life<\/strong>. You\u2019ll hear Brandon talk about housing market crash<\/strong><\/a> prophecies <\/strong>and whether or not he thinks they\u2019ll come true, the struggles he\u2019s facing with today\u2019s intense competition<\/strong>, an unflattering tattoo <\/strong>that may or may not be part of a bet gone wrong, and why humiliation<\/strong> is one of the BEST ways to get you in the zone to WIN.<\/p>\n

But that\u2019s not all; you\u2019ll hear about how Brandon used social media to build his entire real estate business<\/strong>, why NOW is the time to lock down <\/strong>good debt<\/strong><\/a> (and invest!), and why you need to STOP trying to survive <\/strong>and start looking to thrive! Tune in as we take a nostalgic walk down metaphor lane with Brandon and David!<\/p>\n

\n

David:
This is the BiggerPockets Podcast Show 786.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oftentimes, we look at moving the wall, we look at some big project like, \u201cI got to do this big thing. I got to get good at real estate. I got to build financial freedom,\u201d and it\u2019s a big wall. It\u2019s a lot of rocks there. It looks heavy. But the fact is, it\u2019s not heavy. It\u2019s 20-pound rocks. Anybody can do it. So, maybe people need to focus a little bit less on the wall and more on the rock. So, what\u2019s the next rock in front of you? What\u2019s the 20-pound rock? It\u2019s not light, 20 pounds is still a little lift, but anybody can do it. A kid could do it. You just move the rock across the field, before you know it, you got a wall over there, you got a new fence.<\/p>\n

David:
What\u2019s going on everyone? This is David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast here today with a special Seeing Greene episode for you. If you haven\u2019t listened to one of these before, these are episodes where we take questions from you, our listener base, our fan base, the people that are trying to build wealth through real estate, and I answer them for you based on my experience or the perspective that I have with real estate. Well, sometimes I bring in help, and today is one of those shows.
I\u2019ve got my best friend, Brandon Turner with me, former host of this same podcast you\u2019re listening to right now, that really helped me get started in the space. And he\u2019s going to help me tackle the questions that our listeners have asked. This is going to be a fascinating show. I\u2019m excited to bring it to you guys today. Now, I don\u2019t want to give away any secrets from today\u2019s show because it was really fun, but I will tell you, I\u2019m about to teleport myself to Hawaii and bring this show to you live from the Sea Shed. So, I\u2019ll see you in a minute.
From flannel to full-time flip-flops, DIYer to visionary, hot chocolate only to coffee connoisseur. He\u2019s traded cold climates and ice cream every night for sun, surfing, and triathlons. Please welcome none other than my brother from another mother and best friend, Tandon Burner.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That was the most ridiculous introduction I\u2019ve ever had. I loved it. Thank you.<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s not bad.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s really good. Did you write that or did Eric write that?<\/p>\n

David:
Eric wrote that, absolutely.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Did Eric write that or did AI write that?<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s a better question, which we probably shouldn\u2019t get into on this episode right now because we\u2019ll talk about it for the whole time. Brandon and I are staunchly opposed on opposite ends of the AI spectrum. He loves it. I hate it. He thinks that it\u2019s going to be cute and fun. I think it\u2019s going to be the Terminator that takes over the world.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
No, I think both.<\/p>\n

David:
Skynet is Genesis. You heard it here first.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Take over. Take over, man.<\/p>\n

David:
So, before we get into the show, can I tell you a funny story? I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve already told you this, but we\u2019re going to do it on the podcast.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Okay.<\/p>\n

David:
Somebody DMed me asking for marriage advice because he was going through a divorce, and he wanted to know, \u201cHow can I make sure that my wife doesn\u2019t get all the assets?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cEh, it\u2019s not really a question I\u2019m going to answer for you, buddy. You need a lawyer, and I don\u2019t feel comfortable telling you how to screw over your ex-wife.\u201d So, instead, I said, \u201cWell, what can you do to save the marriage? Let\u2019s talk about that. That might be a little bit better.\u201d Marriage is sort of under attack in our country, and I\u2019d rather see couples stay together than get divorced.
And he didn\u2019t want to get into that conversation, but I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, I\u2019ve been through a rough breakup, and I thought at the time that I could handle it. It was actually much harder than what I thought. You might want to really think about this because sometimes when you\u2019re frustrated, you\u2019re emotional in your mind you see a situation working out differently than how it actually works.\u201d Have you ever quit a job based on impulse? Probably not you, but people have, and they wake up the next day like, \u201cWhy did I do that? I don\u2019t have another job. There\u2019s nothing lined up.\u201d
And his reply was so not like I would expect this guy to answer that. I asked him, \u201cDid you send that from ChatGPT?\u201d And the answer was yes. He gave me a computer-generated answer about me pouring my heart out in an Instagram DM. And I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is why I do not like AI.\u201d Because that\u2019s what people are going to do. They\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, how do I say something to my wife on our anniversary that\u2019s going to really make her happy?\u201d And you\u2019re going to go to ChatGPT and say, \u201cSay something really sweet for my wife.\u201d And then you\u2019re going to hand it to her.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I may or may not have done that recently on our, what was it? My wife\u2019s birthday. And I needed a nice birthday message for her on Facebook to be like, \u201cHey, this is my wife.\u201d So, I went on to ChatGPT, and I put in all my thoughts, and I said, \u201cCan you make this sound better?\u201d And it made it sound better.<\/p>\n

David:
At least you put your thoughts in. I\u2019ll give you that. Other people are using it to save time, so they don\u2019t have to think, which is what scares me. And it\u2019s a sickness of the highest order. I don\u2019t like it at all.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Well, why don\u2019t we not talk about it then, man? Because you don\u2019t want to talk about it, so\u2026<\/p>\n

David:
No, I want to talk about you. Well, where we\u2019re back in Hawaii, we\u2019re doing our thing, I\u2019ve got my AI disclaimer out of the way. So, there will come a point where you and I will be pitted against each other, like Celebrity Deathmatch on MTV over this AI thing, and we\u2019ll see how that works out. But in today\u2019s episode, Brandon Turner and I have, what\u2019s the word I\u2019m looking for when you come back in contact with someone? Reconnected.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Reconnected.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s not the word I was looking for.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I don\u2019t know. We\u2019ll call it that.<\/p>\n

David:
Sorry.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It\u2019s a joyful reunion.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, something like that. It\u2019s a reunion.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
ChatGPT and OpenAI, what is another word for, watch this, what is another word for reunion? Another word for reunion is gathering more. Here are some more, meeting, get-together, gathering, rendezvous, assembly, and homecoming. Thank you, ChatGPT. Did you see how fast that was?<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, well, it probably was as fast as we could have just figured it out without having to type. But until ChatGPT is inside of our brains through a Neuralink, we still have to think a little bit.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Give it a year or two.<\/p>\n

David:
So, I\u2019m back with Brandon in the Sea Shed and we are talking, in today\u2019s episode, we are going to get into a fire round of questions that people want to know about us.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That sounds good.<\/p>\n

David:
We are going to get into, as an ode to the old BP style, a fire round where I\u2019m going to fire questions at you, many of them from some of our listener base, and see what you have to say. So, question number one-<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That should be the sound effect, should be like, \u201cFire out, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew.\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
It was something like that, but it was like explosions.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, But I\u2019m thinking I like that the little pew, pew pews.<\/p>\n

David:
I don\u2019t know that that\u2019s still cool, brother. I think that\u2019s like a nine-year-old meme. It was very funny at the time though, especially working in law enforcement. There was pew memes going around all over the place. Question for you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Okay, here we go.<\/p>\n

David:
What happens when you fart in church?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh geez. What?<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Is that a joke or is that a question?<\/p>\n

David:
No, that\u2019s a joke.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh, okay. What happens?<\/p>\n

David:
They make you sit in the pew. All right, getting into our [inaudible 00:05:57].<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Did you make that up or did you hear that?<\/p>\n

David:
I heard it sometime a long time ago, but you brought it back.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s a good joke.<\/p>\n

David:
With your pews. I\u2019m going to list off the types of my boats in my armada. What is your favorite and how would you rank them in order of importance? You\u2019ve got the friendship, the relationship, and the partnership.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Friendship, meaning what do I care more about? Friendship, relationship?<\/p>\n

David:
Which is most influential in someone\u2019s life, friendship, relationship, or partnership?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
How are they different?<\/p>\n

David:
Well, I don\u2019t know. You explain to me. I would think they\u2019re different. Are you\u2026<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I\u2019m best friends with my wife. I have a relationship with my wife and my wife\u2019s my partner. You and I are friends, we\u2019re in a relationship, we\u2019re partners, business partners.<\/p>\n

David:
Okay, so this would be a romantic relationship.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Okay, so romantic relationship.<\/p>\n

David:
Friendship, partnership, and business partnership.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Okay, so business partnership, romantic relationship, and friendship, bromance.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes. Most influential in someone\u2019s life. What\u2019s the big rock they want to get right first?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
The romantic all day long. You cannot grow beyond, maybe you can, but it\u2019s exceptionally hard to grow beyond the person you picked to spend your life with. If that\u2019s wrong, there\u2019s a great quote. Who said that I\u2019m going to, oh no. Pete Vargas. He\u2019s a speaking coach guy, has a big company. He once told me that his dad would always say, was it Pete? I think it was Pete that said this. I\u2019m going to give him credit anyway, it might have been-<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019m just glad you\u2019re giving credit to someone else for a thing you\u2019re about to say.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
A wise man once said, it might actually might have been Daniel Grothe, who wrote a great book called The Power of Place, but either way, the quote was they were together that\u2019s why the three of us were together when I heard this. They said, \u201cWhen everything\u2019s right at 123 Main Street,\u201d their house, \u201ceverything\u2019s right.\u201d When everything\u2019s right at home, everything else is right. When everything\u2019s wrong at home, everything else is wrong. Therefore, romantic partner, number one, most important thing, get that right pick the right person.<\/p>\n

David:
That takes up so much real estate in your head, right?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It takes up so much real estate. When things are wrong in your relationship, you\u2019re not working out, you\u2019re not thinking about real estate, you\u2019re not doing a lot of things.<\/p>\n

David:
You\u2019re in survival mode.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
You\u2019re in survival mode. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n

David:
Good point.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. So, that\u2019s where I go.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s really good. Jay Papasan at your BetterLife Conference seconded that when he was talking about, \u201cI am a husband first, then a father, then a businessperson.\u201d If I get those first two right, all the other dominoes tend to fall in line. So, that\u2019s very good. After romantic relationship, friendships, or business partnerships, most influential.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I can\u2019t separate them, I don\u2019t have friends that aren\u2019t business partners.<\/p>\n

David:
You are that way actually, your friends become your business partners and your business life are your friends. That\u2019s a great point.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I\u2019m not sure I have any friends that I don\u2019t do some kind of business with. No, I\u2019m sure I do. There\u2019s some people from church, for example.<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s thought, man, I\u2019ve never thought about that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Do you have a lot of friends that aren\u2019t business related? I have a hard time, I mean, let\u2019s be real. I have a hard time connecting with people that aren\u2019t in my world of business. Doesn\u2019t mean they do what I do, but they\u2019re at the same mind-<\/p>\n

David:
Because your business is so tied to your mission, that\u2019s why. For you to have a friend outside of your business means they\u2019re also outside of your mission in life, that\u2019s so important to you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. When you get around people and you\u2019ve been around people that are like, \u201cMan, my bosses won\u2019t give me that raise and I\u2019ve been working 40 hours a week,\u201d and they\u2019re like, \u201cThey\u2019re not giving me a raise. It\u2019s so stupid.\u201d How do I even resonate with that? I can\u2019t. We\u2019re operating at very different frequencies, and I don\u2019t want to be in that frequency. So, I almost don\u2019t want to be around. Now there are people I\u2019m friends with, I guess that I\u2019m not in any kind of business thing. However, they are in some kind of business thing usually. So, they\u2019re operating at a similar frequency. We\u2019re all running on the same frequency.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, that\u2019s a great point. All right. Our first question is going to come from the new co-hosts, Rob Abasolo in the H.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
What does the H mean?<\/p>\n

David:
This is what the new people in Houston refer to, it used to be called H Town. They thought they were cool to call it that, H Town became cheesy. So, now they call it the H.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Rob lives in Houston?<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
How did I not know that? I thought he was in California.<\/p>\n

David:
He used to be in LA for a time, but he\u2019s in Houston. He\u2019s one of those guys that bounces around wherever he\u2019s investing. He wants to go live there. But he\u2019s in Houston now.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
He\u2019s investing in Houston?<\/p>\n

David:
I believe he is.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I\u2019m buying.<\/p>\n

David:
You are too.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I got two huge apartments right now that I\u2019m buying.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. So, Rob, if you ever need a place to live, [inaudible 00:09:58] on that rent. Yeah. Rob\u2019s question. How has raising funds in the recent months changed for you? What are some tips that you may have for vetting operators?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It is the hardest time in the history of me being in real estate in 20 years almost of raising money, raising capital. And I would include that being in \u201907. Not that I was doing a lot in \u201907, \u201908, but man, it is tough. It is tough right now.<\/p>\n

David:
What makes it tough?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
A couple of things. Number one, the news makes things tough, right? Consumer confidence is what drives a lot of this. The news has made it very scary, \u201cRecession coming, recession coming, the real estate\u2019s going to crash,\u201d even though there\u2019s almost no data that supports the real estate\u2019s going to crash. But the news likes, likes to say that there\u2019s very little that\u2026<\/p>\n

David:
Why\u2019s it going to crash? Because it happened before.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, exactly. People cannot think outside of what happened before. That\u2019s all they can think is, did this before. Humans need patterns, right? Because our brains-<\/p>\n

David:
To feel safe.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
To feel safe, they need patterns. So, the way that we-<\/p>\n

David:
Especially when 80% of the real estate in our brain is not safe.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yes.<\/p>\n

David:
We look for the comfort and the pattern. And we miss what is actually happening.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. There\u2019s a whole, I mean, books have been written on this topic of humans having to categorize things and find patterns and find meaning in things.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh, for sure. Have you ever dated somebody who their father left their family when they were younger? I guess not because you\u2019ve only dated one person your entire life. But this will come up with somebody who\u2026 Another one of my best friends, Kyle, he lost a job out of nowhere. He just got married. He started a job with another coach. That coach committed a moral indiscretion and was fired from the job, which meant Kyle was fired with him even though he did nothing wrong. And it set this pattern in his life of you can\u2019t ever feel safe. At any minute, the hammer\u2019s going to drop on you.
Or someone who was left by a romantic partner. They were left by a parent. They have this belief that people always leave. And what\u2019s crazy is they now find a way to make that a self-fulfilling prophecy. They push people away to say, \u201cWell, I wanted to hurt you before you hurt me,\u201d or \u201cI wanted to leave you before you left me.\u201d And then they end up using that as confirmation bias to support a, see everyone leaves. See, you\u2019ll never\u2026 That person won\u2019t commit to a job. That\u2019s not the case in Kyle\u2019s case, but that\u2019s because we\u2019ve talked about it a ton. He easily could have been in, \u201cI\u2019m going to quit this job before I lose it.\u201d
And I think the same thing happens with the real estate stuff. People are like, \u201cIt happened before it\u2019s going to happen again.\u201d And so, they don\u2019t go invest in real estate. Meanwhile, when I look at the market, I don\u2019t know if you think the same, but we very well could be going into a recession. I think we\u2019re probably in a recession, but inflation masks that a lot of the time. But all the money\u2019s flooding into real estate. It is the safest place to put your money right now.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. Let\u2019s also remember, because again, people have bad memories and maybe they don\u2019t know the data, but I think it\u2019s like seven out of the last eight recessions real estate went up. It was only the \u201907, \u201908, \u201909-<\/p>\n

David:
Because that recession was based upon-<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That was the real estate recess.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
So, when people think recession, they think real estate recession.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes. Because that\u2019s the most recent-<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Because that\u2019s in their memory and that\u2019s all we can remember.<\/p>\n

David:
Such a good point.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
So, most recessions, almost all of them in American history have been good for real estate investors. That said, I love the point you made. I\u2019m going to bring it even broader, sometimes if you focus so much on that like you said, the self-fulfilling prophecy comes through. We could see a real estate recession and we\u2019re going to make it happen to ourselves because we\u2019re all freaked out now. I don\u2019t believe that\u2019s going to happen because I think there\u2019s so many people waiting right now because of the BiggerPockets effect. I mean, we changed America in terms of real estate. There are millions of people looking for deals. The second there\u2019s a deal, people are going to fill that gap. And so, we\u2019ve got a long time before I think we are going to see a collapse.<\/p>\n

David:
So, there\u2019s two points I\u2019d make there. It is very true that it could happen because we do it to ourselves. And that makes me think about, well, if it does happen, it won\u2019t last forever, right? Makes me think about, there are times where just by pure, sheer force, you can hold a beach ball underneath the ocean, but at a certain point, your arms get tired. What happens when you let go? Shooting right back up and the further down you pushed it, the faster and the higher it comes right back up.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
We need an analogy button, just boom.<\/p>\n

David:
Boom.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Bing.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. So, when you do see something like all the investors get scared, and so they all sell their real estate, and that floods the market with supply like what we saw in 2010. Yes, that can happen, but at some point, people, investors realize, \u201cOh my God, this thing cash flows so easy, let\u2019s go buy it.\u201d It turns around just as fast as it went bad, it goes shooting right back up. The other thing, my opinion, I can\u2019t prove this, but I think real estate has always been, from a financial perspective, not from an easy perspective it\u2019s probably a more difficult asset class to invest in compared to stocks or other things you can just go buy. But it\u2019s always been the best.
And it reminds me of jiu-jitsu. Jiu-jitsu was always around. Karate was always around. Sumo wrestling was always around, wrestling was always around. Taekwondo was always around, but you didn\u2019t know which one was the best because whoever you talked to was a sensei in that thing and they always thought theirs was the best. And then the Ultimate Fighting Championship came around and we actually pitted all of the different martial arts against each other. And it became very clear that this little guy doing jiu-jitsu was beating all of the big guys doing other things. And we had objective evidence to see it was better. And then the popularity of jiu-jitsu exploded.
BiggerPockets sort of functions like the UFC. We started to see everyone\u2019s learning this tool now, everyone\u2019s learning jiu-jitsu, it\u2019s going all over the place. And then as they start comparing their investing vehicle versus the other people\u2019s, real estate\u2019s blowing everyone away. Now everyone wants to train in jiu-jitsu. It used to be a secret If you knew that you could beat up the big guy. Well, now the big guy knows it too. And Blackstone in this case is the big guy who\u2019s going to go in there and buy it all up.
So, what I\u2019ve been telling people is, I am more worried that you will not take action, that there\u2019s not enough urgency about how valuable buying real estate is, and you will miss out on an opportunity to buy it, period, while they\u2019re waiting for this huge crash that\u2019s going to come so that they can get it even better. I don\u2019t want to get too far off our questions, but do you think that I am being a little too greedy in my perspective that real estate is more likely to become too expensive for people to buy than it is to crash and become more affordable and people should wait to jump in?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
[inaudible 00:15:32]No, I agree. I think given a long enough horizon, real estate\u2019s always going to be more expensive. And so, now I also think rents are going to go up. I mean, you made the brilliant point this weekend we were talking that 30 years ago a house was 20 grand in some areas, and now it\u2019s 200 grand. So, that means today if it\u2019s 200 grand, it might be 2 million in 30 years.<\/p>\n

David:
Logically it would be.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Or even more because of all the money-<\/p>\n

David:
Because we\u2019ve printed more money.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
So, at the same time, rents that were $200 a month are now $2,000 a month, and they\u2019re going to be $20,000 a month potentially. And so, it flows together. It\u2019s like grandpa\u2019s like, \u201cWhen I was a kid you could buy a house for $12 and a pack of smokes.\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cYep.\u201d And everyone thought that was crazy that houses would be $1,000.<\/p>\n

David:
[inaudible 00:16:13], \u201cWhen I was a kid you could buy a house for $200,000.\u201d<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Exactly, exactly. And so, the more we can lock in debt today, the more we can lock in good debt, even at seven or 8%, I don\u2019t care, as long as you can lock in good debt.<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s good stuff though. Yeah. It\u2019s really going to be thinking that way. You notice in our position as people who are teaching real estate and have to pay attention to it, there\u2019s certain facts that people like to grab ahold of, and there\u2019s other ones that are uncomfortable and they dismiss it. So, you\u2019ll often hear it said cash flow is guaranteed, but appreciation is just icing on the cake, it\u2019s probably not going to happen. But you look back over 30 years, was appreciation just, it happened to happen or was it pretty predictable?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Exactly.<\/p>\n

David:
And then when you try to live off your cash flow as someone like us that\u2019s done it before, it\u2019s actually wildly unpredictable. You never know when the thing\u2019s going to break, the tenant\u2019s going to leave, the problem\u2019s going to occur. And then everyone accepts that appreciation could happen for the price, but we never think about the fact that it happens for rents too. Appreciation applies to rent. Rents go up over time while the mortgage stays the same. That\u2019s what makes real estate make sense.
Your loan balance stays the same. Your value of your home goes up. Your mortgage stays the same, your rent goes up, over time this always happens yet there\u2019s this consistent message of, \u201cWell, don\u2019t bank on that. Don\u2019t bet on that.\u201d And we\u2019re not telling people to go out there and get yourself in the whole two grand a month buying a property that you can\u2019t afford. No one would say that, but just let\u2019s quit pretending appreciation in rents and prices and stuff is an accident that just happened like it\u2019s not predictable that that\u2019s going to continue.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. Agreed man. Agreed. But to continue the topic really quickly about raising capital, yes, it\u2019s hard right now, but this is where my mind goes with that. Let\u2019s just say half as many people are willing to invest in, let\u2019s say Open Door Capital right now, we\u2019re doing a big raise right now. Let\u2019s say half as many people are interested. And out of those people, let\u2019s say they\u2019re only investing half as much. So, now it\u2019s literally four times harder to raise capital than it was before, which is probably about where we\u2019re at. Okay. So, we have two options, you can shut down and you can say, \u201cI\u2019m not going to raise as much capital. I\u2019m going to lower my goals.\u201d My buddy in high school, Corey would always say, \u201cIf you can\u2019t reach your goals, lower your standards.\u201d You can do that, not good advice.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. He was talking about that in terms of hitting on girls.<\/p>\n

David:
I had a friend that had the same thing with hitting on girls, and he used to say, what did he always say? He said something like, \u201cLower your standards, raise your average.\u201d The same thing.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. So, you can choose to do that if you want to, but instead, I just asked the question, \u201cHow do I get in front of four times as many people?\u201d And so, we started advertising on Facebook and Google and YouTube, and I went, and I started going on more podcasts and instead, I took a problem, identified the problem, and then I asked, \u201cHow do I overcome that problem? Let\u2019s really look at it and dissect it that way.\u201d And so, if somebody\u2019s trying to raise capital right now, whether it\u2019s you\u2019re trying to find one hard moneylender to fund your flip and there\u2019s half as many hard moneylenders and they\u2019re turning you down twice as much, it\u2019s four times harder to get hard money.
Okay. Apply for four times as many hard money loans. If you are trying to raise money from family or friends or you\u2019re trying to get a bank to finance your deal or an FHA loan to house hack, I don\u2019t care. And it\u2019s harder, don\u2019t wish you were easier wish you were better, right? That\u2019s a famous quote as well.<\/p>\n

David:
Weights get lighter when you lift them.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. No, no. Well, wait, what?<\/p>\n

David:
They feel lighter, but the weights aren\u2019t actually becoming lighter, you\u2019re becoming stronger.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yes. That\u2019s it. So, raising capital right now that\u2019s important. On the LP side, let me just speak to those people who have money right now and are thinking about investing it. But you\u2019re nervous because it\u2019s a scary time, quote-unquote, right now. First of all, it\u2019s always a scary time. There has never been a time, even when it was easier to raise capital, everyone\u2019s like, \u201cOh, we have it. A recession\u2019s coming anytime.\u201d They\u2019ve been saying that for eight years. You remember a podcast, we interviewed a guy years ago, not to call him out, I won\u2019t even say his name, but years ago who, I mean, this is 2011 maybe.
And he was talking about musical chairs and he\u2019s like, \u201cLook, we\u2019re going to go into another recession probably I don\u2019t need it.\u201d It\u2019s like, the real estate\u2019s a game of musical chairs and everyone\u2019s dancing and having a good time right now. But you know what? Chairs are being pulled away and the music\u2019s just going, but there\u2019s fewer and fewer chairs. So, you know what? I don\u2019t have to be the last one to get a chair. I\u2019m going to sit down right now and I\u2019m going to just watch people dance. And then the melody\u2019s going to come on. The music\u2019s going to stop. Everyone\u2019s going to scramble for a chair and a bunch of people are going to lose. But I\u2019m going to just sit down and watch. That was 2011. What did this guy miss out on? We didn\u2019t see a double dip. He missed out on 10 years. Maybe he got back into it. I don\u2019t even know the story.<\/p>\n

David:
No, but theoretically if he followed his own advice, he missed out on the biggest run we\u2019ve ever seen in housing prices because of all the money that was printed.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Correct. So, again, we make the best decisions with the data that we have, I understand that. But there is never going to be a time that you are going to feel good about investing in real estate. There\u2019s never going to be a time that there\u2019s not a question of fear coming around the corner.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh, 100%.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Right. It\u2019s always something scary coming around the corner. Always. I\u2019ve been in this since 2007. There\u2019s always been somebody shouting from the rooftop, usually Robert Kiyosaki, that the world\u2019s going to fall. Right. That it\u2019s going to collapse.<\/p>\n

David:
And it\u2019s comforting to hear that because it affirms our fear.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yes. Yeah. But the reality is we don\u2019t know. So, the best you can do is you can find a good horse and bet on the best jockey and the best horse you can find. And maybe spread the risk a little bit among multiple deals or multiple people.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. But if you\u2019re going to invest in something, I like investing in real estate the most because if my stock portfolio dips, if my crypto dips, if my NFTs dip, if whatever I put my money in goes down, I\u2019m not getting rent paid, they can weather that storm so that I can bounce back. Real estate ends up being the best offensively and defensively when you look at it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It does. Yeah. And what I like about real estate is it\u2019s not going to go to zero. I mean, almost for sure not going to go zero. And so, business could, stocks could, you invest in your brother-in-law\u2019s startup, it\u2019s going to go to zero almost for sure. All this can go to zero. But real estate is as long as you can hold it long enough. So, this is the final tip I have for everybody in this economy right now, whether you\u2019re raising capital, whether you\u2019re thinking about investing in somebody else\u2019s deal, whatever, the debt matters now more than ever before, that\u2019s where you\u2019re going to lose is with bad debt.
And then really, it\u2019s that it\u2019s any market. The way you lose is bad debt. And what I mean by bad debt, I mean is loans that are maybe riskier, that are adjustable rate at a level you can\u2019t handle that are short term. There\u2019s going to be a massive problem in the coming years. This is a whole different conversation. But with all the bridge debt, which is short-term debt that went on commercial real estate over the past five, six years, it\u2019s all coming due, those people can\u2019t refinance. They\u2019re in trouble. The debt is what\u2019s going to sink people. Dave Ramsey has been preaching this for years now. His answer is no debt. Mine is to be very cognizant of the debt that you\u2019re doing or that the investor that you\u2019re investing with is doing.
So, yeah, pay attention to the length of time. The more time you have, the less risky it is. You get a 30-year loan, it\u2019s really hard to screw that up. You get a 30-year loan with some cash flow, it\u2019s really hard to screw that up.<\/p>\n

David:
Avoid a cocaine addiction and you\u2019re probably going to be okay.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, you\u2019re going to be fine. Yeah. So, given enough time, you\u2019re going to be fine. In fact, we just recently changed our whole model at Open Door Capital where almost every deal we do now is what we call a generational wealth fund. Because we were looking at the market, we\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t like the risk.\u201d Let\u2019s just pull back and say, \u201cEvery deal we buy now,\u201d generally speaking, we will do some one-offs that aren\u2019t this way, \u201cwe\u2019re going to hold forever.\u201d Forever, there\u2019s no end date, there\u2019s no end date. And we just tell our investors, \u201cHey, invest with us. You get all the cash flow, all the cash flow until you get 100% of your money back through refinances.\u201d
At that point, we split everything, not 50\/50. We give them more than we usually give 70\/30. So, they get 70%. So, in other words, you get all the cash flow until we refinance it someday until you get your money back, and then you stay in the deal for the rest of your life, forever. We don\u2019t sell, we don\u2019t plan, infinite return at that point. And we get the longest debt we can get. We can try to get 30-year debt all day long. It just takes all the risk down. And is the return less than if we were to go flip apartments every six months? Sure.
If we wanted to flip apartments, get really risky, low debt, or really risky high leverage debt that we have one year to get a property and turn around and flip it, you\u2019re going to get a better return, guaranteed. And so, there are people doing that. If that\u2019s your game, go do it. What I want is I want consistency. I want low-risk. So, I want really good, solid, stable debt for the long haul. And that\u2019s my advice for anybody in real estate right now is look for the long play, the long game.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Next question here, Brendan, you\u2019re an expert and relentless marketer, podcast video content all around you and you help build a foundation of what BiggerPockets is today. You also grew your own brand and several social accounts along the way. What is the status of the competition that you had with Investor Girl Britt to get to 300,000 followers? Is there a winner? Have debts been paid and are there new bets to be made?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Great question. So, by the way, Investor Girl Britt and I raced to 100,000 originally, she won. Then we raced to 200,000. She won. And then we set the bet, but we didn\u2019t set it at 300 actually. So, the bet is 500,000. We wanted more time to build up here and I don\u2019t want to lose again. So, this time she is at 259,000 followers. And I am at more than that 330, or something like that, 330.<\/p>\n

David:
But you didn\u2019t win because you didn\u2019t set the milestone at 300, you said it at 500.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Correct.<\/p>\n

David:
Which you thought would be an advantage and actually [inaudible 00:25:31] against you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
So, what\u2019s the $300,000 milestone in your life, David? That you should be setting instead? You were afraid and so you\u2026<\/p>\n

David:
I don\u2019t track shallow metrics like followers, so I don\u2019t know. I would track them if I was good at it. I\u2019m at like 150, half of you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
There you go. Well, let\u2019s talk about this for a minute. I think this is a very interesting point you just brought up shallow metric.<\/p>\n

David:
Doors, number of doors.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Well, no, that\u2019s not where I was going, but maybe that is. People might think social media is a vanity metric, followers is a vanity metric.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh, I see. It\u2019s not in our business.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It is very tied to how much capital I can raise, is the number of people who know, like, and trust me, how does somebody know, like, and trust me? They have to see you over and over and over. That\u2019s why people [inaudible 00:26:13].<\/p>\n

David:
And they have to see patterns of consistency in your message and in your life.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. Over and over and over. So, show me a way to do that at scale other than social media and I\u2019ll go do that, but it doesn\u2019t exist. Social media, TV, that\u2019s it. But we own-<\/p>\n

David:
The currency of the future is attention, it\u2019s even more important than dollars because dollars can be inflated. It\u2019s very difficult to inflate attention.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. I don\u2019t know if I had to guess I spend half a million dollars a year on my team, the team members that run everything from video to social to all that stuff. We probably spend a good chunk of money on that. Why? Because I\u2019m trying to buy $10 billion of real estate. By the time this episode airs in a week, I\u2019ll be just on the edge of a billion dollars of real estate. I got 10 times more to go. So, what does that mean? I need 10 times more people to know, like, and trust me. I need to consistently find good deals.
And this is the other thing with social media, actually, the number one reason to have social media is not to raise capital, it\u2019s to raise people. The best people I have, all my top people, I\u2019m a who, not how guy. All my top people came from social media, they followed me, they found me. I mean, they listened to the podcast, which I would include in social media, but they found me on the podcast, or they read my book maybe. But then they followed me on social media. They saw a pattern over time and now they are working for me.
Now people might be saying like, \u201cYeah, that\u2019s easy when you have 330.\u201d I didn\u2019t, five years ago, I didn\u2019t 10 years ago. I started with zero. Just like you would, just like everyone does. We all start with zero. And I\u2019ve been working on it for a long time. And so, it goes back to the idea that Jordan Harbinger told us on the podcast when we interviewed him back a few years ago. I don\u2019t remember what episode that was, but he used that line, \u201cDig your well before you\u2019re thirsty.\u201d Look, I don\u2019t care if you\u2019re raising capital right now, but someday you may want to raise capital, someday you may want to bring an employee, someday you may want to whatever. Maybe now is the time to start focusing a little bit more on your social media.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, I\u2019m glad you\u2019re focusing on it because my best people come from you. So, please continue. Now remind me, what was the bet that you had with Brittany? What does the loser have to do?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh, man. Nickelback tattoo on the lower back.<\/p>\n

David:
Now, was it a coincidence that you look like the Nickelback guy? So, Brittany\u2019s going to have to get a tattoo that looks like you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
This is how you remind me.<\/p>\n

David:
You sound like him too.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I do sound like him.<\/p>\n

David:
We\u2019ve talked about this before. Might as well do it on the podcast. Is Nickelback as bad as the reputation?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
No, dude. Okay. So, I was working out with Jerry back like a year ago.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, he\u2019s our jiu-jitsu instructor.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
And we\u2019re working out and he\u2019s like, \u201cWhat music do you want to listen to today?\u201d I was like, \u201cLet\u2019s put on Nickelback. That\u2019ll be funny, right?\u201d So, we play it and we\u2019re working out. And I\u2019m like, \u201cThis song\u2019s awesome.\u201d I was like, \u201cI forgot about this song.\u201d And then the next song comes on and we\u2019re like, \u201cThis song\u2019s great.\u201d The next song came out for an hour and a half, didn\u2019t repeat just song after song. Everyone was a freaking hit, and everyone was amazing. It\u2019s like the Taylor Swift of Rock. And I\u2019m like, \u201cDo we hate them because they\u2019re bad or do we hate them because they\u2019re good?\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s deep. So, what\u2019s the Nickelback in your life?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
What\u2019s the Nickelback in your life? Who are you looking down on because they\u2019re more successful because, at the end of the day, you are jealous? Whether you want to admit it or not, you\u2019re jealous of their success. So, you\u2019re looking down on them. Is anybody out there listening to this going, \u201cI don\u2019t really like Brandon.\u201d? Probably. Maybe you don\u2019t like my beard. Maybe you don\u2019t like my voice. That\u2019s very possible. But I know that for me when I look at people and I don\u2019t like them, it\u2019s almost always rooted in an a-<\/p>\n

David:
It exposes something about you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It exposes something, a hole in me that makes me feel like the bad guy. And a wise man once said, \u201cNo one wants to be the villain in their own story.\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
Or what opinions have you formed because everybody else was saying it and you were lazy [inaudible 00:29:32] listen to it yourself?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
There you go. Yep. Dude, that\u2019s a question right there. Like, \u201cOh, this doesn\u2019t work, BRRRR doesn\u2019t work, house-hacking doesn\u2019t work, subject-to doesn\u2019t work.\u201d Or subject-to works, BRRRR works. Or how-<\/p>\n

David:
There\u2019s going to going to be another recession [inaudible 00:29:42].<\/p>\n

Brandon:
There\u2019s going to be another recession. Yeah. We love to take these shortcuts. It\u2019s easier just to rip on Nickelback because yeah, Nickelback is an incredible band.<\/p>\n

David:
I was a little scared to say that out loud because I thought there might be the answer for why everybody hates them, but I couldn\u2019t understand why they\u2019re so hated. Paramore was another one. People were just ripping on Paramore and how bad their music was. And I\u2019m not a huge that type of music fan, but they don\u2019t sound bad to me when I hear it. There is one small thing that has been known to plague you from early on in life about personal hygiene. Can you share what that is and if you have found a solution for it yet?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh my gosh. Bringing back from a long time ago, I had a youth pastor when I was in sixth grade, Jodi de Young, shout out to Jodi. She said, \u201cHey guys, you realize that nobody ever cleans the middle of their back?\u201d And I was like\u2026 Because you can\u2019t reach, there\u2019s like a one-inch spot in the middle of your back you can\u2019t reach.<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s like on the windshield, the little triangle that the windshield wipers\u2026<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yes. Yes, that\u2019s exactly, there\u2019s this little triangle-angled spot on the back of you as well that has never seen soap a day in its life.<\/p>\n

David:
Even with your arms. You\u2019re Mr. Fantastic [inaudible 00:30:47].<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yes. I got some arms, but I can not reach that one little spot right there. I mean, yeah, you could let the soap drip down. You can take a towel and maybe do this, but none of us do, instead we\u2019re all just gross. And don\u2019t let anybody lick your back. It\u2019s disgusting.<\/p>\n

David:
At least not that spot.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Not that spot. Lick at the rest of it.<\/p>\n

David:
I wonder if massage therapists know that and they avoid it, they just take a detour around it every single time they get there?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. The question I have for you though is what is that little spot in your life? Where in your real estate have you just been avoiding?<\/p>\n

David:
Again, if you guys have ever wanted to know what it\u2019s like to be best friends with Brandon Turner, it\u2019s that question on repeat every single time that you try to talk.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Listen man, in your business, there is something that you just\u2026 You\u2019ve been doing everything. You have these patterns in your life. You do the same thing every time you get in and you just do your thing. But there\u2019s one thing you\u2019ve been avoiding and that\u2019s the part that\u2019s starting to stink, man. It\u2019s the part that you need to focus on because right now is the time to focus on that spot on your back.<\/p>\n

David:
The bacterial dilemma.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
The Bacterial Dilemma by David Greene. It\u2019s the new book.<\/p>\n

David:
All right.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Well, we\u2019ve got nowhere in this show.<\/p>\n

David:
I hope you guys are enjoying the nowhere run that we\u2019re on. I mean, Seinfeld was a show about nothing, and it did really well. Right?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
This is a show about nothing too. But I guarantee you by the end of the show, you will be financially free or your money back.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s exactly right. All that money that you paid us, you\u2019ll get it at [inaudible 00:31:57].<\/p>\n

Brandon:
All that money you paid us today to listen to this show.<\/p>\n

David:
Next question, where did our obsession with jiu-jitsu, which we\u2019ve already mentioned once unfortunately, begin, and who was responsible for the hundreds of mentions that our audience now has to endure?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
So, episode number 365. I like that. Jocko was on episode 365, and I\u2019ve listened to Joe Rogan, I\u2019ve listened to other people talking about jiu-jitsu, Tim Kennedy, and others. And it was always one of those, \u201cYeah, that\u2019s a cool, neat thing, that\u2019d be fun.\u201d And they say there\u2019s a lot of reasons to jiu-jitsu and Jocko did it and I like Jocko. And he gets on the podcast, and I said to him, \u201cYeah, man, I would love to someday-\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
Big mistake.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
\u2026 \u201cDo jiu-jitsu.\u201d And as any good friend does, not that I can call Jocko a friend though.<\/p>\n

David:
He was a friend to you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
He was a friend to me.<\/p>\n

David:
He who is my neighbor in the story of the Good Samaritan is, who do you choose to be a neighbor to?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. Do you know why? Because he said to me, \u201cSomeday? What day?\u201d I\u2019m like\u2026<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, Brandon Turnered you is what he did. And I got to watch it in real-time.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m going to go Monday.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, here\u2019s what I want you to do. I want you to go on Monday. I want you to text me on Tuesday and let me know that you went.\u201d So, I show up on Monday, I\u2019ve told this story before I\u2019m going to tell it real briefly now, I show up on Monday. I Googled. I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, I know there\u2019s one in my town. I Googled jiu-jitsu in Kihei and there\u2019s a place. I go, \u201cOkay, great.\u201d So, I drive over there during the day to go check it out and it\u2019s out of business. And I\u2019m like, \u201cOh no.\u201d So, I go back home, I Google again, where\u2019s another one? It\u2019s 40 minutes from my house. I\u2019m like, \u201cShoot.\u201d So, I go there and I\u2019m late that night because it was Monday. So, I go there and I\u2019m late.<\/p>\n

David:
Nothing better than being the white guy in Hawaii that walks in late on their first day of a jiu-jitsu class.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
And this was in Wailuku, this is the local area, meaning this is not where tall, inky, Brandon shows up to jiu-jitsu five minutes late.<\/p>\n

David:
You\u2019re walking in the wolf\u2019s den.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh. And everyone\u2019s in a gi and I\u2019m not, and I walk in there and I\u2019m five minutes late and there\u2019s a woman at the front desk sitting there and there\u2019s 30 men looking strong and talking and doing some warmup stuff. And they\u2019re on the mat. And I\u2019m like, \u201cHi.\u201d And she\u2019s like, \u201cCan I help you?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cYeah, I\u2019d like to do jiu-jitsu.\u201d And she goes, \u201cToday?\u201d Like \u201cYeah.\u201d She goes, \u201cHere?\u201d And I was like, \u201cYeah.\u201d And she goes, \u201cWhat\u2019d you Google it or something?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cYeah.\u201d
She looks at me and she\u2019s like, \u201cYou want to do this?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cYes.\u201d \u201cWell, I don\u2019t\u2026 I mean, just go sit over there.\u201d And she points to this bench. And on this bench is three six-year-old kids, maybe five or six-year-old kids. And they\u2019re all just sitting there playing video games on their iPads. She\u2019s like, \u201cJust go sit over there.\u201d So, I literally walk over there, all six foot five of me, and I sit down on this little kid\u2019s bench. There\u2019s one kid to my left, two kids to my right.<\/p>\n

David:
Never heard the detail of this story.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
And I sit there for an hour and a half, and I just watch these guys roll.<\/p>\n

David:
The bench of shame.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
The bench of shame. And I was so mortified every second. But you know what? That\u2019s what accountability does. I was so scared to walk in. I was so scared to go there. New place didn\u2019t know what was going on, out of place, didn\u2019t know what jiu-jitsu was, didn\u2019t have my gi, didn\u2019t know what a gi was. And I\u2019m sitting on the bench feeling like a moron. But I knew I was going to have to report back to Jocko. That\u2019s why I\u2019m such a fanatical about accountability because when I tell something to myself, I will lie to myself all day long. When I tell something to somebody, I respect that I\u2019m going to do something I am going to do that thing.
And this is why in the BetterLife tribe, we have pods, right? GoBundance has the same thing, pods. Hold each other accountable in a pod, whether you\u2019re in my group, whether you\u2019re in David\u2019s group because you got accountability, I got accountability. Build accountability in your life if you want to see tremendous growth. So, the story goes on, I leave quickly as soon as it ends, I ran out and I was like, \u201cThat was terrible.\u201d But now I have at least done a little bit. It\u2019s like the newbie going into real estate. And you go in and you\u2019re like, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to look like a moron.\u201d And you make an offer on a property that\u2019s completely stupid, or maybe you go to an open house, and you don\u2019t even know what you\u2019re doing.
And you walk out and you\u2019re like, \u201cThat was dumb. I\u2019m never going to do it again.\u201d And most people never go back. But I got home and I\u2019m like, \u201cAll right, can\u2019t be worse than that.\u201d So, I Google it again, I find another place. I was like, \u201cI\u2019m going to go to that one anymore. That was too awkward.\u201d So, I go to the other place, I Google it, and two days later I go to that one. I walk in. This time I walked in a little early. There\u2019s four guys standing around, I\u2019m like, \u201cHey, what\u2019s up everyone?\u201d And they looked at me and they\u2019re like, \u201cCan we help you?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cYeah, I was hoping to do some jiu-jitsu.\u201d And they\u2019re like literally said, \u201cWhat\u2019d you Google it or something?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cYes. I Googled it.\u201d
I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat do I do?\u201d And I\u2019m not kidding. The instructor points to the bench and he says, \u201cYeah, just go sit over there.\u201d And I go sit down again. And I watched the entire thing and I just sat there and watched. But at some point, at the very end, he\u2019s like, \u201cYeah, come over here and stretch with us.\u201d And at the very end, I went and str did the ending stretch with them. And I showed up the next day. And that time I got to do the beginning stretch. And then I got to watch them roll. And the next time I did a little more. And next time I did a little more. And before long I was in jiu-jitsu.
So, long story short, there\u2019s such a great metaphor for life here in terms of real estate. People want to get into real estate, and they get scared, and they don\u2019t show up, or they get scared, and they do show up and they do something stupid, or they make a mistake and then they quit. But as Tony Horton from P90X fame would say at the end of every single episode of P90X, every single video, he\u2019d say, \u201cHey, just keep pushing and play. No matter what you feel, no matter what you\u2019re doing, you show up tomorrow and just press play.\u201d And that\u2019s my advice for people today trying [inaudible 00:37:28].<\/p>\n

David:
Even Brandon Turner did not eat the whole thing in one bite. You had to split into several small bites and kept showing up and went through some embarrassment, went through some shame, went through some humiliation, which is funny because they didn\u2019t directly humiliate you. But being told to sit on a bench with a bunch of six-year-olds while you watch everybody else get to be cool. And then the real embarrassment starts when you actually go out there and start having to do it, right?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yes. Then you really get embarrassed. But then you\u2019re on the mat, then you\u2019re there. I\u2019ll give you one more, actually two more quick, very quick stories. I know people are tired of jiu-jitsu analogies. I\u2019m walking through Costco, and I\u2019ve told this on the show before, but I\u2019m walking through Costco, and I meet this guy who recognizes me from BiggerPockets. What up? Shout out to you if you\u2019re listening right now. And he says, \u201cHey man, I heard you\u2019re doing jiu-jitsu. I\u2019m a black belt.\u201d
And I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, cool man. Yeah, I\u2019ve been doing it for about six months now. I\u2019m just a white belt.\u201d And he stops me. He goes, \u201cHey man, you\u2019re not just a white belt. You\u2019re not just a white belt.\u201d He said, \u201cYou know what? The white belt is the hardest belt to get.\u201d Now for those who don\u2019t know, the white belt is the one they give you for showing up. That\u2019s the beginner belt. And he said, \u201c99% of people will never earn their white belt,\u201d earn their white belt.<\/p>\n

David:
Good point.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
They give you the white belt, but you have got to show up.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh, yeah. How many of the people listening to this are looking at you, the black belt investor, I\u2019m going to own a billion dollars of real estate. And they\u2019re comparing themselves to you. And they\u2019re like, it\u2019s how we feel when we look at a black belt, \u201cI will never ever, ever, ever be them.\u201d<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Be there.<\/p>\n

David:
And you know what the next thought is? \u201cSo, why show up? Why even try? Because I can\u2019t be them.\u201d Versus looking backward and saying, \u201cLook at all the people who don\u2019t know anything about real estate, who have no money saved up, who are actually in massive debt, who don\u2019t know any path out of where they are, other than just working that same job and hoping something external just magically finds them and changes their life that have no plan to find financial freedom.\u201d But they\u2019re listening to this podcast and that\u2019s starting to be developed.
There\u2019s some people that are listening like you on the bench with the six-year-olds that are watching what it looks like to do jiu-jitsu. And the neurons are being rearranged in their brain as they\u2019re starting to figure out what this thing looks like. That is progress. You don\u2019t have to be buying 700 doors a year for it to be considered progress.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
There\u2019s a man in Ireland back in the day who wanted to move a rock fence. Have you ever been to Ireland? They have these rock fences. They\u2019re like, not mortared or anything, just piles of rocks, and then make the whole fence. And he had to move the fence from this side of the field to another side of the field. And so, he goes over there, and he grabs a rock, but probably 20 pounds let\u2019s say. And he takes the rock, and he walks across the field, and he sets the rock down. Then he walks back, grabs another rock, moves across the field, sets it down.
And each of these rocks, let\u2019s say weigh 20 pounds. And over the course of the day, he moves, we\u2019ll call it 10 rocks. Did that man move 200 pounds? Yes. Did he move 200 pounds at one time? No, he never had to move more than 20 pounds. And so, oftentimes we look at moving the wall, we look at this big project, like, \u201cI got to do this big thing. I got to get good at real estate. I got to build financial freedom.\u201d Let\u2019s take it back to the ff. I got to build this financial freedom. And it\u2019s a big wall. It\u2019s a lot of rocks there.
It looks heavy, but the fact is it\u2019s not heavy. It\u2019s 20-pound rocks. Anybody can do it. So, maybe people need to focus a little bit less on the wall and more on the rock. What\u2019s the next rock in front of you? What\u2019s a 20-pound rock? It\u2019s not, it\u2019s not light. 20 pounds is still a little lift, but anybody can do it. A kid could do it. You just move the rock across the field, before you know it, you got a wall over there, you got a new fence.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s a great example.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Thanks, man.<\/p>\n

David:
You\u2019re not too bad at those.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Thanks, man.<\/p>\n

David:
Next question. We know that time with your family has always been a driving motivator. What\u2019s something else that real estate has afforded you?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh, real estate has afforded me a luxury, ridiculously nice property where I live. I talk a lot about these 10 categories of life. It\u2019s your spirituality, your finance, your career, your relationship. But one of them, out of a 10, and we do like this little project, the Wheel of Life, but one of them I call environment. The environment is the physical world around you. It\u2019s the car you drive, the house you live in, the office you go to work to every day. It\u2019s the physical world, the things you touch, see, hear, feel all that, every single day.
And now happiness is not derived purely from your environment. You can be happy and living in the middle of nowhere in a terrible house and driving a terrible car and be perfectly happy. However, the more of your life categories that are on a scale of one to 10, closer to 10, the general better happiness I feel, the more fulfilled I feel. So, real estate has allowed me to maximize my environment in a way that allows me more, again, doesn\u2019t just alone bring me happiness, but my environment brings me a lot of peace and enjoyment. I\u2019m able to host people here all the time, and I\u2019m able to take my kids in the pool. I\u2019m able to do a lot of things that I could not do when I lived in the rain of Grays Harbor because of real estate investing.
And I\u2019m not talking about the money of real estate. I\u2019m talking about, I\u2019m house-hacking this house. I\u2019m living in Hawaii for cheaper than people live in Ohio. And that\u2019s the fact of the matter. I\u2019m living in a $4 million house in Hawaii cheaper than people live in Ohio because of real estate investing. So, hashtag house-hacking.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s a great point. I loved it because you asked the question, how do I do it? Not can I do it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Technically you asked the question, how can you do it? And then I answered to you.<\/p>\n

David:
But you already knew it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. But you helped me understand that again, the power of accountability and friends that challenge you. So, thank you. You pushed me to buy this house.<\/p>\n

David:
My pleasure, man. Thanks for putting me in the position where I was able to talk to you. You wouldn\u2019t be on the podcast right now, even having those real estate conversations if it wasn\u2019t for you. And again, I\u2019m also enjoying this $4 million house in Maui that I don\u2019t own myself. So, please keep doing what you\u2019re doing because it definitely benefits me.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I feel like we\u2019re shutting down, but we still have the Famous Four, aren\u2019t we? Is that still a thing?<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, we\u2019re heading to that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh, okay. Good.<\/p>\n

Speaker 1:
Famous Four.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Famous Four. I get to ask you these questions. Question number one, what is your current favorite real estate book that is not your own?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
All right. This is a book, and I know you ask the business book one next, but it\u2019s a business book, but there\u2019s a chapter on real estate. The book is called, shoot, Keith Cunningham, The Road Less Stupid and I\u2019ve been told by multiple people to read it. Chapter 10 in The Road Less Stupid is probably the single greatest chapter of any book I\u2019ve ever read in terms of real estate, because-<\/p>\n

David:
You read a lot of books too.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I read a lot of books. Here\u2019s what happened. He went bankrupt back in the \u201980s, the whole real estate thing, just like Dave Ramsey had the trouble, that whole world of real estate changed in the late \u201980s and a lot of people went bankrupt. So, him and all his buddies who were all millionaires, that all went bankrupt, sat down, and said, \u201cLet\u2019s make a list of every single lesson we learned.\u201d And they just wrote a list. He just took that list and the whole chapter is simply a hundred lessons of somebody who had come just out of a collapse. And so, reading this, I was taking a pen and [inaudible 00:43:57]every single line. I underlined I was like, \u201cOh, I need to know this. This is great.\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s concentrated wisdom.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Concentrated wisdom from multiple people in real estate. It was fantastic. And it\u2019s all commonsense stuff, but it\u2019s stuff that you need to hear. Just stuff about being greedy, going too fast.<\/p>\n

David:
But that\u2019s what fundamentals are.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, it\u2019s fundamentals.<\/p>\n

David:
And you have to be reminded of fundamentals all the time.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. Yeah. It was a really good chapter. I read at a really good time.<\/p>\n

David:
Something I like about you is that you put the fun in fundamentals.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I put the fun.<\/p>\n

David:
Because you\u2019re entertaining.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I would say I put the fun in fund.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes, you do.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Open Door Capital, we put the fun in fund.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Question number two, what is your favorite business book?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Business book. Man. Favorite\u2019s a hard one. I\u2019m going to go with, I think I will go with The One Thing I really like The One Thing I\u2019ve been hanging out with you and Jay Papasan here in Hawaii because he was a keynote for the BetterLife Real Estate Investment Summit. But I really like The One Thing. When I read that book, I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve talked about this, I probably have. But when I read that book, first of all, it was the only book I\u2019ve ever read where I finished page whatever, 250, whatever the last page is. And then I went and turned back to page one, and I read it again. I read it twice in a row.
And then I had this epiphany. I said, the idea of The One Thing is what\u2019s the one thing you can do that if you just did that, everything else becomes easier, not needed, basically. And I said, \u201cIf I could just get this concept and the concept in this book into my thick skull if I could just really internalize this, my life would be completely different.\u201d Everything else would be easier. In fact, the book, The One Thing is the one thing. And so, I said, instead of reading 20 books this year, or 30 books this year, I\u2019m going to read one book 20 times. And I went and read The One Thing, I think 20 times.
I put it on Audible and just for the rest of the year, the whole year, that\u2019s pretty much all I read was The One Thing. I\u2019d go for walks, it was when I was running a lot. So, I just go for a run and I just listened to an hour of The One Thing every day and I just kept listening over and over and over. I told that to Jay and he probably thought I was a stalker. And then I look at where I\u2019m at today, and I\u2019m like, \u201cIt\u2019s so many of the lessons in that book.\u201d In fact, just sitting with Jay at a table this weekend, I was like talking, we were just BSing and telling stories.
And there were three different times where I was like, \u201cWait, I think that story was in The One Thing.\u201d And he\u2019d laugh and went, \u201cYeah.\u201d So, so much of what I do and say, and teach just came from that book. So, The One Thing, Jay Papasan, and Gary Keller.<\/p>\n

David:
There\u2019s a verse in the Bible that talks about that same principle about read the Word, meditate on the Word, drill it into your forehead, make it so it\u2019s so ingrained in who you are that you don\u2019t have to think to try to remember. It is a part of you. That sounds like exactly what you did with The One Thing. And when it comes to wisdom, that is a really good idea. It acts as a compass that guides you when you feel lost. When you get confused, you\u2019re less likely to stray away from the path, so to speak, when you\u2019ve got that software downloaded into you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
There\u2019s a great quote from Bruce Lee that says, \u201cI fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
That quote is in BRRRR.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Is it?<\/p>\n

David:
Yep.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
What does that mean to you?<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s repetition. It creates mastery. That\u2019s the way that I use it, it\u2019s why I talked about Bruce Lee so many times. You don\u2019t get good at anything doing it once or twice a year or once every three or four years, which is how most people buy real estate. You have to do it a lot if you want to be good at it, just like anything else. And so, there\u2019s always a new, shiny thing. It\u2019s nice to say, \u201cI know 10,000 different kicks, look what I can do.\u201d But to do one kick 10,000 times is how you become a master of it, which makes you a more feared opponent.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Moving on.<\/p>\n

David:
Question number three. What is one habit or trait you have picked up lately?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s like my question and I don\u2019t even know, tennis. I\u2019m going to go tennis. And I\u2019ve actually stopped the last few months as I got into the gym instead. But for the last year, I did a lot, I got a tennis membership, and I started playing tennis. Why? Because I wanted something I could do with my wife. And she had friends that were playing tennis. So, I said, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s do tennis.\u201d So, we started playing together and it was fun. We were having a good time. I\u2019m going to likely switch over to Pickleball and try that. I\u2019ve not played yet.<\/p>\n

David:
Such a follower.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I know people just say\u2026 Here\u2019s my problem with Pickleball. It\u2019s always been, I never saw somebody have a sweat playing Pickleball. No one has a sweat playing Pickleball. It\u2019s always like\u2026 Right? But then I met an actual professional Pickleball player and he\u2019s like-<\/p>\n

David:
Pickleballer?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Pickleballer. I met a professional Pickleballer and he\u2019s super in shape and he is like, \u201cDude, no, Pickleball is intense. It\u2019s like racquetball, but you can play it outside anywhere you want.\u201d I mean all over the place. And that\u2019s what convinced me because I\u2019m a racquetball player through and through. I love racquetball with all my heart, soul, and mind. I love it.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. You\u2019ve always loved it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Always loved it. There\u2019s just one place on the island to do it. In fact, I\u2019m going to build a co-working spot in Maui, we\u2019re actually working on it right now. We\u2019re going to buy land; we\u2019re going to build a big co-working spot. I\u2019m going to put a Pickleball, I mean I\u2019m going to put a racquetball court in it because there\u2019s nothing else. So, I\u2019m going to house-hack my racquetball court. And if you\u2019re a member of the co-working spot, you can therefore use the racquetball court.
And this will interest you, you know how racquetball courts are made up of all those four by eight panels all over it, the bottom whole level I\u2019m going to have on hinges that swing up and inside will be mats, and you can roll them out and you have a jiu-jitsu gym as well. So, I can rent it out to jiu-jitsu academies or have one hosted there. And then we can just roll it back up and back to the racquetball courts. You can reserve the court for either racquetball or jiu-jitsu, martial arts.<\/p>\n

David:
Brandon Turner idea right there.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. I\u2019m going to literally house-hacking an office because I need an office. I need a better studio than this. And I\u2019m like, \u201cI don\u2019t want to pay for it.\u201d So, I\u2019m doing a $16 million development project right now and we\u2019re going to raise capital for it. We\u2019re going to do the whole thing and it\u2019s going to be so I can have an office, but the returns are actually stupid because there\u2019s a big need for that here.<\/p>\n

David:
Awesome man. Very cool to hear that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Anyway, that is what I\u2019m working on.<\/p>\n

David:
All right, question number four. What is one of your favorite things about me?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
About you? That is not a question.<\/p>\n

David:
What the producer put in there.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Okay. Your analogies are pretty great. You show up when I ask you to. And when I ask for a favor, you have never said no, ever. You encourage me a lot, and other people, you\u2019re very good at encouraging. That is maybe a gift you have, which is you see the best in people and then you call it out on them. But you also see room for improvement and call that out on them. And that\u2019s what a true friend does, so\u2026<\/p>\n

David:
Thanks, man.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Not bad at all.<\/p>\n

David:
Appreciate that. Not my hair, huh?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Going to say the beard\u2019s looking pretty nice, but hey,<\/p>\n

David:
Dude, it\u2019s harder to grow longer than I thought. I just thought it would sprout right out. It got to this point and then stopped.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
You got to eat more carrots or something.<\/p>\n

David:
Okay, we\u2019ve got to talk about that. I was wondering if it was like a beard oil thing. Question number five, tell us where people can find out more about you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I am an Instagram nerd. So, BeardyBrandon, beard with a Y, Beardy. But notice how I said BeardyBrandon beard with a Y. People are like, \u201cOkay, that\u2019s B-Y-R-D. I\u2019m like, \u201cbeard Y.\u201d Think Spanish like beard E Brandon. It\u2019s like beard and Brandon, BeardyBrandon on Instagram, TikTok, all that stuff. The podcast is A Better Life with Brandon Turner. We hit number 40 of all podcasts in the world when we launched.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s nice.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That was awesome. It\u2019s not there now, but was, we have a traveling podcast. So, I travel around the country, and I record people and that\u2019s been a wild adventure to do that. We\u2019ll fly into a city and record seven podcasts at one time over a three-day period with no sleep. And we go out with the guests afterward and it\u2019s been an adventure. But man, it\u2019s been fun. So, that\u2019s it. A Better Life with Brandon Turner, go to listen to the podcast and you were on it. So, go listen to that episode everyone.
I heard multiple people say that when you and I were chatting on, we did a live podcast recording, then we followed it up with a little interview after. But when we did the live one, almost everybody I talked to said that was the best part of the entire conference that I held and that it was the best thing that you and I have done together. People thought it was one of the best things for you and I. Now I think this interview was pretty darn awesome but go listen.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. You got a lot going on, man. You\u2019ve not been resting on your laurels, that\u2019s for sure. Very cool to see this and cool to see that the vision is still firing even faster than it was when we were doing our stuff together. That\u2019s right. Thanks for joining us, everybody. Please go check out Brandon all over the place and send him a message. Let him know what you thought about this show. Let you get out of here because you\u2019ve been sitting down for a long time. This is David Greene for Beardy, pew, pew Brandon, signing off.
All right. That was the first half of my conversation with Brandon Turner. We\u2019re about to get into another conversation that isn\u2019t Seeing Greene style, but it\u2019s still going to be fascinating. We\u2019re going to talk about the five episodes on BiggerPockets that had the biggest impact on both of us. You don\u2019t want to miss it. So, check out that episode next.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n


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Brandon Turner is back! That\u2019s right, live from the Sea Shed are your beloved BiggerPockets hosts, Brandon and David! Can you feel the bromance brewing through your speakers, or is it just us? David flew out to attend one of Brandon\u2019s recent events and conduct a two-part interview with one of the most popular property […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":4304,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[33,1],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4303"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4303"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4303\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4304"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4303"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4303"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4303"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}