{"id":3594,"date":"2022-10-26T04:19:54","date_gmt":"2022-10-26T04:19:54","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/how-to-get-big-cash-flow\/"},"modified":"2022-10-26T04:19:54","modified_gmt":"2022-10-26T04:19:54","slug":"how-to-get-big-cash-flow","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/how-to-get-big-cash-flow\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Get BIG Cash Flow"},"content":{"rendered":"


\n<\/p>\n

Medium-term rentals<\/a> have seen growth like almost no other type of real estate.<\/strong> In the past, if you wanted high <\/strong>cash flow<\/strong><\/a>, you\u2019d be hit with the headache of running a short-term or vacation rental. So, most investors who wanted to take the passive investing route stuck to regular, long-term rental properties. But, with interest rates<\/strong><\/a> higher than many of us have ever seen, most regular rental properties simply won\u2019t cut it<\/strong>. Thankfully, there\u2019s a strategy that merges short and long-term rentals, with many of the combined benefits but few drawbacks.<\/p>\n

The strategy is simple: buy a house, furnish it, and rent it out for over thirty days. Surprisingly, doing so will often get you double the rent <\/strong>as a regular rental property without the constant turnover of short-term rentals<\/strong>. Don\u2019t believe us? Maybe Sarah Weaver<\/strong> and Zeona McIntyre <\/strong>can change your mind. They\u2019ve been doing the medium-term rental strategy for years, and it\u2019s what\u2019s given them the financial freedom <\/strong>they enjoy today!<\/p>\n

Sarah, shortly after finding out about the medium-term rental strategy, converted many of her long-term rentals into medium-term<\/strong>. Zeona, a former short-term rental owner, knew the high cash flow, low maintenance<\/strong> approach would help her live the nomadic lifestyle she loves. They detail exactly how they did it, what it takes to succeed, and how you can repeat the process in their new book, 30-Day Stay<\/em><\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

\n

David:
This is the BiggerPockets Podcast Show 679.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
For people that are trying out this strategy coming from the long-term rental side, one thing that we say is like, \u201cYeah, maybe you don\u2019t want to spend the money to invest in furniture and ones you already own, but if you\u2019re going out and buying new places now, it\u2019s really hard to find long term rentals that\u2019ll cash flow.\u201d And so this is a great strategy for that because now even with the high prices, even with the high interest rates, you can still get cash flow and medium term.<\/p>\n

David:
What\u2019s going on everyone? This is David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate podcast here today with my co-host, Rob Abasolo, where we are bringing you another fantastic show today focused on medium term rentals. You may be aware of short term rentals. You\u2019re definitely aware of traditional or long term rentals, but in today\u2019s show, we talk about the new emerging market, a medium term rentals. Typically, these are properties that are rented to traveling professionals, often travel nurses, but not only travel nurses, and we get into some really good stuff. We talk about how to find the right type of property that will work for this, what location to look for, how to furnish them, how to manage them, and how to maximize their efficiency, as well as how to mitigate your risk when you are a short term rental investor. Rob, what were some of your favorite parts to today\u2019s show?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Honestly, it was just really nice to talk to a couple pros. Sarah and Zeona just have this mastered so well. I am obviously more of a short term rental guy, but I have a couple of medium term rentals and yeah, I just walked into my medium term rental after someone checked out and it was like that scene from Daddy Day Care where Eddie Murphy walks into the bathroom and he\u2019s like, \u201cOh, Oh.\u201d And it just kept revealing that it was just worse and worse. That\u2019s how I felt. It was nice to talk to them and talk about their strategies, their processes, and the systems they\u2019ve put in place to run a very successful medium term rental. This is going to be a fun one to get into.<\/p>\n

David:
Wonderful. Before we get into the show, today\u2019s quick tip is check out Sarah and Zeona\u2019s book 30-Day Stay. If you pre-order it now, you can get some special perks, bonuses, if you will, a coaching call with them, a free webinar, as well as other bonuses. You can find it by going to Biggerpockets.com\/pod30 and use any of the names from today\u2019s podcast to get 10% off that book. It\u2019s very well written. It is a very relevant asset class, and I believe that these two are the front runners for sort of sharing information of how you can make money in this space. I have bought these properties myself. Rob has transitioned a couple of his short term rentals into medium term rentals, and you can do the same. So go grab the book. Rob, any last words before we get to the guest?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, Just quick clarification on the promo code. You can use promo code, Rob, you can use promo code, David, Sarah, or Zeona for 10% off. You said any of the names from today\u2019s podcast, right?<\/p>\n

David:
Yes. And you just gave the names, so thank you technical Tina for correcting my general error.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Listen, while we\u2019re here, the one that\u2019s going to give you the best 10% discount will be Rob. Don\u2019t ask me why. Just use Rob.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s really good. I have no counter to that. All right, let\u2019s get to the show. Sarah and Zeona, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. How are you two today?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
So good. Thanks for having us.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
We\u2019re excited to be here.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, so I believe we just got to see each other at BPCON in San Diego. Zeona, you were there as well, right?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yep. You were on my floor. We shared a couple elevators.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh, and you didn\u2019t say anything the whole time. Nicely played.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Not true. It\u2019s cool though. It\u2019s cool.<\/p>\n

Rob:
She told you about her childhood, David, come on.<\/p>\n

David:
She\u2019s honest. I was trying to give you the cool factor. Oh, it\u2019s an elevator with David Greene. I didn\u2019t even care. I made him talk to you.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Oh my God. Well, the first time there was a crowd and I was like, I\u2019m not doing that. Everybody\u2019s like, oh my God, it\u2019s David. No, I don\u2019t care that much.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s so funny that you get that a lot when you\u2019re in our position. These people will say, you know what? I know I\u2019m not impressed by people that are a big deal. We hear that all the time. And I\u2019m like, well then, why did I work so hard to become a big deal? That\u2019d be like if some guy was to say, I\u2019m not really impressed by beautiful women, so don\u2019t think it matters. And you guys would be like, well then, what was the point? It\u2019s always a funny thing that I noticed that pops up, but no, you did not fan girl at all, Zeona. I would\u2019ve remembered, and it\u2019s probably a good thing that you avoided that big crowd because I\u2019m sure one of those people is the one that gave me this cold that I\u2019m now suffering from post BPCON. That was a large exposure to a lot of people with very little sleep, which is a recipe for getting sick. I trust all of you are in good health.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
So far so good.<\/p>\n

Rob:
And let me just say you are a big deal to me. I look at your photo and then I go to sleep every night and so when I got to see you again in person, I was like my man.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s the joke at BiggerPockets is I have a huge fan base of males. I\u2019m very popular with the male crowd. I\u2019m like, every guy wants my life, which is very funny. So I appreciate that. Thank you guys for the support. I had a blast at BPCON, and I believe you two are now in the exclusive club of BiggerPockets authors. So we were on the same floor also when we were doing our book signing events. How does that feel to be a BiggerPockets published author?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Feels really good.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
It\u2019s kind of surreal. I feel like you work on this, I don\u2019t know, idea for a while, and then when you actually hold it in your hands, it was the first time we were at BPCON, it was like, whoa, this is not just our secret, it\u2019s out and people have it now. It\u2019s pretty awesome.<\/p>\n

David:
There\u2019s certain moments that are like that. The first time you hear your voice on the podcast that you love, you\u2019re like, whoa, that\u2019s me On the BiggerPockets podcast. Or for me, when I walk by a Barnes & Noble and I see the book at the Barnes & Noble, I get that surreal moment you\u2019re talking about like, that\u2019s my book that\u2019s right there. It definitely is very cool. And I believe Sarah, you and I were also on a panel together teaching real estate agents how to sell more houses. We should definitely get into that today as well. You\u2019re a bit of a multi-talented personality. Before we get into all the stuff you guys have to offer, if you don\u2019t mind, Zeona, we\u2019ll start with you. What\u2019s your story? How did you get interested in real estate investing and get into your first property?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, so I was on the BiggerPockets podcast 229 and 300, so way back before you were here, David. If people want to go back and get the deep dive, I used to be big in short term rentals, so just trying to be like Rob. But yeah, I did that since 2012 and I built a big co-hosting business around it where I was managing rentals in five countries. But after COVID, I realized that I had to make a switch. And so I got really excited about the medium term strategy and that\u2019s why we wanted to bring it to everybody. It was really during that period of time that I had to do something different.<\/p>\n

David:
Awesome. Sarah, what about you? How did you get introduced into this world?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Yeah, so I started out as an agent, and that\u2019s why you and I shared a panel at BPCON. I coach real estate agents now on how to invest in real estate themselves or build an investor-friendly business. And so started out as an agent and similar to Zeona, just have an absolute love of travel. And so realized really quickly that I wanted to be location independent and build wealth through investing. And so now, I own 19 units in four states and I manage all of them remotely. Half of them are medium term rentals, which is why Zeona and I write the book.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, this is amazing because full transparency, I have three medium term rentals that are all under rehab right now and I have zero idea how to manage them.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Great.<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019m going to ask you a lot of questions to try to prepare for this because I don\u2019t know what I\u2019ve gotten myself into, but I\u2019m pretty heavily invested. Those three properties are probably worth around five to $6 million, so I got to figure this thing out and what better way than to do it live in front of everybody on the podcast. Now, Rob, have you got into the medium term space or are you pure short term?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, I actually have a couple of medium term rentals, David. I have a couple of short term rentals that I converted into medium term rentals back about a year, year and a half ago. Really, at the beginning of COVID, I\u2019d say. I was really thriving in the short term rental model, but there was a couple regulations in LA that made it a little bit more prohibitive. And so medium term rentals typically, especially in the LA side of things, is 30 days or more. Anything under 30 days is considered a short term rental in Los Angeles specifically. I converted that and I still rent my tiny home and what used to be my primary residence on Airbnb for anywhere from 30 to 90 days and there\u2019s definitely some learnings that I\u2019ve taken away over the past couple of years that I\u2019m excited to dive into.<\/p>\n

David:
Learnings, you\u2019re literally making up words on this podcast.<\/p>\n

Rob:
No, that is a word. Look it up.<\/p>\n

David:
Learnings.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Google it.<\/p>\n

David:
No, this is what Brandon Turner did too. He just became rich because he could do it so well. He\u2019s like, \u201cYeah, let\u2019s just call it BRRR. Let\u2019s just call it house hacking.\u201d Then everybody started saying it. Now, we\u2019re all going to hear everyone with a corn cob pipe and a monocle that are all going to start saying things like learnings.<\/p>\n

Rob:
It\u2019s a word forward.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes. All right. I am fascinated by the why behind what causes people to switch their investing strategy. Zeona, if you could, what was it about short term rentals that you didn\u2019t like? Or was there an opportunity you saw in medium term rentals that you did? What motivated you to switch out of what was probably very lucrative space into something different?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, so right when COVID was happening, I think it was even March 8th, it was from one day to the next, we had all the bookings looking like it was going to be a really strong summer kind of building up to that and then the next day all of the bookings got canceled. They just literally evaporated off the calendar. And so I knew I\u2019m not just going to have these places vacant, I\u2019ve got to be an investor, I\u2019ve got to put my thinking cap on and be creative and figure out something else. And right at that time I started seeing longer requests coming in.
People needed to quarantine coming home. There were emergency workers coming into town, people needed more space because they\u2019re working from home or they had their kids at home now educating. And so all of those things made me go, I wonder if I could do this medium term thing for longer stays and make that still work. And the thing I was worried most about was trying to get people in for tours. But I realized later that a lot of these people book site unseen just like a short-term rental, and so it ended up being fine.<\/p>\n

David:
Cool. It was the vacancy problem that you\u2019re like, \u201cUgh, I got to figure out some way to keep these things occupied?\u201d<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, definitely. Then like what Rob said, there\u2019s a lot of transitioning in markets where I might have owned in that market for five years and before you could short term rental with no problem. Then now they\u2019re getting stricter and stricter and so it\u2019s just a little bit easier if you can transition to the medium term space.<\/p>\n

David:
How about you, Sarah, what was it that was the switch that you sort of zigged when everybody else was zagging?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I actually went straight from long term to medium term. I bought a fourplex and furnished two of the units and discovered that I could actually net more if I rented to traveling nurses. There\u2019s a big hospital complex in that area. This is in Omaha, Nebraska. The Airbnb hotspot location doesn\u2019t quite apply to this property. And so while I could get fully booked on weekends, I had all this vacancy in the middle of the week. I almost immediately switched to the medium term rental strategy to increase my cash flow.<\/p>\n

David:
Okay. First selfish question coming up, Sarah, is it as simple as just buying a property near a hospital or are certain hospitals more likely to be bringing in traveling nurses and other ones are not? Like how much nuance do you have to put in to figuring out where to buy?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I like buying near hospital complexes so that there\u2019s multiple hospitals in the area. For example, my four of my seven units in Omaha are a 100% occupied because the nurses just keep extending their contract. That\u2019s one of the many benefits of having the traveling nurse versus any other MTR tenant is that they likely are going to extend their contract, and then you have six months of occupancy with no turnover.<\/p>\n

David:
But would some hospitals not be bringing in traveling nurses or is it pretty much every hospital right now is having nurses travel to work there?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
What\u2019s really nice is, well, it\u2019s not nice for society, but it\u2019s nice for people that own MTRs is there\u2019s 300,000 vacancies across the country for nurses right now. If you ask any healthcare professionals, 75% of them will say, I don\u2019t see myself in the healthcare profession in the next two years. And so the need for traveling nurses is higher than ever and I see that as a continued trend. While I can\u2019t say that every hospital across the United States is going to have a traveling nurse, I\u2019m really confident that if you buy a rental near a hospital complex, you\u2019re going to have someone who\u2019s willing to stay there.<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019ve noticed several people in the BP community, some of them are in my mastermind and other ones have come on the lives and they\u2019re all making incredibly good money as traveling nurses. This is literally the strategy some people are using to save up money for their down payment is they\u2019re making twice what they would make at a different location and they\u2019re getting their housing paid for by the hospital. That\u2019s one of the things that got me really interested is that they\u2019re getting their rent paid by the hospital so you can charge more for rent and they don\u2019t necessarily fight about it, the person who\u2019s making their own rent payment and they\u2019re going to fight you over $20. Zeona, same question to you, what\u2019s your strategy when you\u2019re picking the location for where you want to put your medium term rental?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yes, so we look for hospital complexes, we try to be within five miles of two hospitals if you can. That\u2019s the number one thing and the reason for that is that nurses are probably not going to travel more than 20 minutes. Beyond that, a university can bring in a lot of people, it can be students, it can be teachers coming into town. I like being near universities. Then there\u2019s also tech centers. Where I live in Boulder, we\u2019ve got a Google campus and a couple other kind of tech hubs and those actually end up bringing in a lot of people when they\u2019re trying out for a job and they don\u2019t want to buy something yet. They might stay in a medium term rental for a bit. Then you\u2019ve got kind of business professionals that will come in for a month or two, go to the main office, but they normally work from a different office. Yeah, there\u2019s just a lot of different people using MTRs now.<\/p>\n

David:
Take someone who owns traditional, what we call long term rentals right now, who in that asset class should be considering switching over to a medium term rental? Sarah, I\u2019ll ask. I\u2019ll start with you.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Everyone buy our book. No, I really think that the MTR strategy works for so many different property types. We\u2019re seeing, I have clients who have, even in our book case studies where they own in urban areas and rural areas. There\u2019s MTRs for four bedrooms, single family houses, there\u2019s one bedroom, one bath MTRs, and so I truly believe that almost any location can support an MTR. Would I go and buy 30 houses in a small town and turn them all into MTR?<\/p>\n

David:
If you were David, you would and you would definitely regret it. We just talked about that.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Yeah, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s the best strategy, but I think it\u2019s so interesting. I get this question a lot of what if, what if, what if, and the reality is you only need four tenants a year, so you don\u2019t need to stress as much about like, is this a good strategy? If you\u2019re just going to turn one of your long term rentals into a medium term rental, you obviously have to furnish it and that\u2019s going to take time, money, and energy. But aside from that, it really isn\u2019t that stressful of a transition to go from a long-term to a medium term.<\/p>\n

David:
Nice. Zeona, what advice do you have for people that already own some assets that could easily be converted rather than just having to go buy a new one?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, so I would want to make sure that the location was good for it. I would say you want to probably be more in an urban market. As opposed to short-term rentals where they\u2019re more on vacation areas that might not be as urban or rural stays that might be outside of town, urban\u2019s going to work best for this, you just have more options for tenants. Then the second thing is size. With short term rentals, you\u2019re seeing a lot of people going bigger is better, four, five bedrooms trying to get in to families heads and beds. That\u2019s kind of the name of the game. With the medium term rentals, I really like to do one or two bedrooms. It can work with bigger ones that I\u2019ve heard about people doing rent by the room strategy with medium term rental. But it seems like such a headache that I\u2019ve generally found that people travel either by themselves with another nurse or with a family member, and so they\u2019re really not needing that much space.<\/p>\n

David:
You\u2019re saying there\u2019s not a huge demand for traveling ranch hands that are going into these rural areas?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Maybe not, I mean, maybe in Ocala, Florida or something like that where it\u2019s like horse capital of the world, but other than that, maybe not.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. That\u2019s funny. Also, Zeona, perhaps I\u2019m saying the word rural correctly. If you guys would like a master class on how to struggle with that word, go back to the time when Zeona was interviewed on the BiggerPockets podcast before me with Brandon and Josh and watch Brandon struggle to say rural for 200 episodes. It is hilarious.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I can\u2019t say it either rural.<\/p>\n

David:
That wasn\u2019t bad. You could tell you\u2019ve been practicing. That was part of the auditions when Rob was trying to get this co-host position is we were like say rural and we all sat there with a scorecard and gave him a score of zero to 10 on how well they did.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Very traumatizing.<\/p>\n

David:
All right, Rob, you\u2019ve got a decently healthy portfolio yourself, what would you do? What would it take for you to transition some of these into medium term rentals?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Totally, man. I mean, there\u2019s kind of a few schools of thoughts and I think if you\u2019re a long term rental investor, a lot of the times, you\u2019re going to be handing off that property to a property management company. I mean, you might do the self-management thing, but I know a lot of long term rentals do that. Then with short-term rentals, it\u2019s so heavy into the self-management for me and then for a lot of the people that I work with and a lot of my peers in this space. It is definitely a lot more work than obviously handing it off to a property management company. Midterm rentals are kind of a really unique spot in between for both, and so I think it\u2019s pretty low stakes to test out this approach for the medium term rental side of things, when you\u2019re already a short-term rental host. I mean, it\u2019s a little bit tougher going from LTR to MTR because you got to spend money on the furnishings and that\u2019s a big investment and it\u2019s time to set it up and everything like that.
But if you\u2019re a short-term rental host, you\u2019ve already got it furnished no matter what, you\u2019re going to be running it as a short-term rental. It\u2019s pretty low stakes for you to give it a shot and the way that I\u2019ve done this is I\u2019ll pick the price that I want for my short term rentals and then I\u2019ll just apply a really big discount for anyone that books my place for 30 days at a time or more. If a typical property is going to bring in, we\u2019ll call it $7,000 a month on the short term rental side, and I\u2019m fine with having it as a midterm rental, I might offer anywhere from a 30 to 50% discount. Now, for me, typically medium term rentals have brought in less money than short term rentals, but they\u2019re a lot more hands off. I find that whenever people are staying at my place for 30 to 90 days, they don\u2019t really bother me as much for little things.
I feel like they sort of feel the empowerment of, \u201cHey, I can go buy my own toilet paper, or hey, they don\u2019t have a garlic press, I\u2019ll just go do that. I don\u2019t want to bother them for that.\u201d Whenever people feel like they live there, they don\u2019t really bother me as much unless it\u2019s an actual maintenance problem that I have. I think if you want to try it as a short term rental host, it\u2019s a lot easier of a decision because all it takes is for you to just apply a discount and let people book you. But I\u2019m curious, Sarah and Zeona, when you guys are doing medium term rental as opposed to short term rentals, how much of maintenance like property management maintenance with guests do you feel? Not actual physical fixing thing, but I just mean how high maintenance are your medium term rental guests? Sarah, we can start with you.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I find the same thing. They take ownership of the unit and sometimes they\u2019re even leaving really wonderful things. I had one even improve the closet and say she added shelving because she was there for three months. And so not only are they less maintenance, but they\u2019re actually improving the property along the way and they may need your help getting into the unit or have a question in the first three to five days, but then they fall silent. If they\u2019re saying 90 days to 180 days, that\u2019s like 80 days of peace where you\u2019re not having to, this is how you use a cure egg, this is how you get into the unit and that\u2019s what I like about MTR versus STR.
I just want to touch on, I think it\u2019s really important of what you said, that you are making less money as an MTR because you bought in places that are really stellar STR markets. But some of Zeona and I\u2019s units are in places where short term rental doesn\u2019t really work. And so therefore, MTR is not only more because your occupancy\u2019s higher, but it\u2019s significantly more than it would if I was a long term rental.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, that makes sense.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah. And I just wanted to say because you were talking a little bit earlier about should I change my short term to medium term? It doesn\u2019t have to be as dramatic as that because you can just utilize the strategy for your slow times. That\u2019s what we do at a few of our places that are sometimes short-term rentals is that you\u2019re just going, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s going to be winter season, that\u2019s our slow period, let\u2019s get someone in for three or six months just to abate some of that.\u201d That would otherwise be only weekends, right? I like it for that. Then for people that are trying out this strategy coming from the long term rental side, one thing that we say is like, \u201cYeah, maybe you don\u2019t want to spend the money to invest in furniture and ones you already own, but if you\u2019re going out and buying new places now, it\u2019s really hard to find long term rentals that\u2019ll cash flow.\u201d And so this is a great strategy for that because now even with the high prices, even with the high interest rates, you can still get cash flow in medium term.<\/p>\n

David:
I like that it\u2019s a hybrid. You don\u2019t have to choose long term or short term. That\u2019s actually brilliant during the slow seasons. You can put it on Furnished Finder or we\u2019ll ask you guys later some of the better places where you advertise these. And when you don\u2019t need to, just get more income, putting it on the short-term rental vacation sites, that actually makes a ton of sense. You don\u2019t have to change anything about the property. It\u2019s already set up to be doing both. What are some of the key considerations that people should take into consideration when they\u2019re going to go the medium term rental route as far as being an asset manager?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Yeah, I love talking about asset management because I don\u2019t think it gets some of the shiny headlines that other topics do. And I think as an investor, you have to be an investor. And so one of the things you need to keep in mind if you\u2019re going to switch to medium term rental is that you need to have systems in place. And so if you\u2019ve never run a short-term rental before or any furnish rental, you\u2019re going to need a great cleaner, you\u2019re going to need multiple handymen because these guests do expect things to be fixed. It\u2019s probably a little quicker than you would on your long term rental. I call it my vendor list. And my vendor list doesn\u2019t have one plumber, it has five plumbers. And so if you\u2019re thinking about having a medium term rental, you want to build your on the ground team.<\/p>\n

David:
That is very wise. I have the same thing because I have rental properties all across the country. Every time we get a new one or anytime we have a problem with one that exists, we add that vendor to our vendor list. Every state, I have a property, every city I have a property, I\u2019ve got every plumber that we\u2019ve used in the past, every handyman, the person that can hang a door because you don\u2019t want to be going online and looking for a new person every time you need something because you didn\u2019t take five seconds to throw them on your spreadsheet when you had them. That is a very, very good little quick tip there to mention. Zeona, what about you? What do you think when it comes to being an asset manager? What\u2019s some advice that you can give our listeners?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, so when we were at BPCON, this was great. A person in the audience came and talked to us later and she was saying that they own an 8-plex and that most of the units were two bedrooms, but they had a couple that were one bedrooms and the two bedroom units would rent really fast long term. They had no problem with that, but then these one bedrooms would be hard to rent. They couldn\u2019t really get tenants for it and they were struggling and they looked at each other and they were like, oh my god, this MTR deal now there\u2019s going to be so much demand for these one bedroom units because they\u2019re perfect for this strategy. There\u2019s so many nurses that want to just live alone or a digital nomad or somebody that\u2019s doing a renovation in their house or whatever. It can be great for a couple or just a single person.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, I\u2019ve had every single one of those at my medium term rentals. I\u2019ve had families that were wanting to move to that specific neighborhood. A lot of people, especially in LA, I mean it\u2019s expensive to buy a house out there, right? A starter home out there could easily cost six, $700,000 up to a million dollars just to get into something. It\u2019s a lot of money. And so a lot of people want to go and stay in the neighborhood and feel like, okay, hey, do I like it here? Do I actually want to spend the money in a neighborhood like this? I\u2019ve also had people that were traveling nurses, I\u2019ve had groups of traveling nurses stay at my place. I\u2019ve had people that were remodeling their kitchen for an HGTV show that they were like couldn\u2019t really tell me too much about, but they\u2019re like, \u201cIt\u2019s a famous show, I\u2019m not allowed to say anything.\u201d And I was like, well, I gotcha. I got blackmail on you because you just told me but\u2026<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Was it in Denver? Because there\u2019s a series about build my sex room and I feel like that\u2019s what they were actually talking about.<\/p>\n

Rob:
You know what? Let ask some of the\u2026<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Wow, David\u2019s face was priceless. He was not expecting that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Cut back to that.<\/p>\n

David:
That sounds like\u2026<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Build my dungeon. [inaudible 00:26:10].<\/p>\n

Rob:
I\u2019ve had a lot of different people stay at my place. Formerly, I thought that families were my favorite people to host in medium term rentals. I would say that perception has been crushed by my last set of guests that were families that stayed there for a long time. I will say in my experience, medium term rentals have brought a little bit more wear and tear than a typical short term rental. Can you guys talk about that, Sarah? Have you ever had anyone in your guest that was\u2026 Sorry, have you ever had anyone in your house that was a little bit harder on your home in a 30 day stay than you would\u2019ve with five sets of guests in the short term rental side?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I think that when you allow pets for your medium term tenants, you\u2019re opening yourself up to more damage. I definitely have replaced a couch and a rug because of pets and so that\u2019s a consideration you have to make. I know that Zeona has made the decision to have no pets, which is brilliant. Then I just have found a way to have a great pet fee, a pet deposit as well as a security deposit, and so that\u2019s the money that covered the cost of replacing those items.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. What about you, Zeona?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I actually think short-term rentals are harder on the home just because people are kind of turning in and out so much and they\u2019re more like vacation vibes and they don\u2019t care as much and there\u2019s a little bit of that hotel, oh, it\u2019s not my place. I think when people are there a while, they have a little bit more pride of rentership. They like having their home a certain way, they might actually take care of it a little bit better and we don\u2019t have as much damage because they\u2019re not moving furniture in and out like they do in long term rentals. One thing I wanted to mention as an agent myself, I figured David would like this, is that I\u2019ve had so many people moving to the area and then being able to either refer them to an agent in that area or take them on as a client myself when it\u2019s local. I actually think it\u2019s like a secret sauce for agents.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, I like the point you made. If I was to ask Rob what his biggest complaint was with short term rentals or the biggest detriment to the business, my guess is it would be the freaking partying. The people that come in, they book it for six people and they bring 20 and they throw a huge party on the last day there, they trash the house because they don\u2019t live in their own filth and then you got to go clean it up. But that\u2019s not going to happen in a medium term rental because they got to live in their own filth if they try to do that. No one throws a party at their house, they throw it at somebody else\u2019s house. By making it a medium term rental and making someone live there by nature, they\u2019re going to take more care of the property. And that\u2019s one of the reasons I\u2019m getting into that space because I think you\u2019re eliminating one of the biggest complaints that you\u2019re going to get from short-term rental operators is the parties.
The other is going to be the fact they get held hostage by the guest. Oh, the coffee machine didn\u2019t work, the thing didn\u2019t happen, I need a big discount. You\u2019re not as likely to do that if you\u2019re staying there for three months of your life, it\u2019s awkward. You don\u2019t want to get a bad relationship with your landlord. You\u2019re willing to get a bad relationship with your hotel host that you\u2019re only staying somewhere for three days. I love that you\u2019re not really losing a ton of revenue, but you are eliminating a huge part of the headache of the short term rental space. I wanted to switch gears up. Actually, do either of you have a comment you want to make on that point before I ask the next question? I saw you nodding your heads.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I think of one of the things that I like about this strategy is its less barrier to entry for a lot of investors. So investors out there that have been nervous about short-term rental regulations or just the constant turnover and cleaning and coordination of guests. This strategy is really great for that type of investor. If you\u2019re looking to make more cash flow from your units that you already own or units that you\u2019re about to acquire, this is a really great strategy that isn\u2019t as much work as a short term rental.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I\u2019d like to say that they just do stuff that other guests won\u2019t, like short term rental guests, they won\u2019t change a light bulb, they won\u2019t go get batteries for the remote. There\u2019s things where they\u2019re like, yeah, \u2026<\/p>\n

David:
There it is, the batteries.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
\u2026 we\u2019re a team. We\u2019re living in this home. They\u2019re happy to contribute a little bit more and we save a lot on supplies because they leave a lot of stuff. They might leave really nice shampoos and conditioners or they buy extra of things, and so we\u2019re not having to replace as much in the supplies department.<\/p>\n

David:
Thank you. All right. I\u2019ve been dying to ask this question the whole time. I\u2019m sure somebody else is thinking the same thing. When I\u2019m converting something into a medium term rental, how many bedrooms ideally do I want to go for and how do I know if more is better? If I have the opportunity to take a property and turn it into three one bedrooms or two units and one of them has one bedroom, one of them has two bedrooms, what are some factors you would take into consideration when determining if you want a three bedroom medium term rental or a one bedroom medium term rental?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
My units are all two bedroom and one bedrooms. I like the smaller units. I find that they\u2019re actually, at the beginning I found that they were less attractive to other buyers. Most people are wanting a bigger unit. If you\u2019re buying a duplex, they\u2019d love a three, two on each side or a two one on each side. I was able to pick up these multi-family properties that are all one bedroom, one bath, and then the cash flow from them are amazing. Does that mean that a three bedroom doesn\u2019t work as a medium term rental? Not necessarily. I just am targeting two bedrooms and one bedroom units.<\/p>\n

David:
And so before we move on to Zeona, what is it about the two bedroom that like who\u2019s going to be renting that out? What\u2019s the avatar of tenant?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Yeah, so it\u2019s really interesting. While most of my tenants are traveling nurses, you\u2019re going to see a lot of different tenants. I have a friend Sylvia, who\u2019s investing in Waco and she only has rented to construction workers. Then I have a friend near an Amazon facility and they\u2019re all housing seasonal Amazon workers. And so there\u2019s a lot of other tenants out there that aren\u2019t traveling nurses. In addition, I\u2019ve also housed people going through a divorce or doing a kitchen remodel. And so while most of my tenants are traveling nurses and that gives people a feel for, you should buy an MTR near a hospital, know that their MTR tenants of all shapes and sizes.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, I wanted to say that I actually put my parents home on Airbnb a couple years ago and they were like, basically, my mom got relocated to San Antonio and so my parents\u2019 house, she would basically go back and forth every two weeks or every three weeks because of how the job worked out. And so my dad would go there with her because he\u2019s a romantic, and so their house would be very empty. And so I was like, \u201cHey, let\u2019s put it on Airbnb.\u201d And it\u2019s in a town called Pasadena in Texas, which is not necessarily a touristy place. It\u2019s actually where a lot of refineries and oil rigs are. Like if you drive to Pasadena, Texas, it\u2019s miles and miles and miles of giant tubes coming out of the ground with smoke, and so it\u2019s not really a tourist destination per se. And so when I told my parents, I was like, \u201cLet\u2019s just do it. I think it\u2019s going to work.\u201d
And they\u2019re like, \u201cWhy would anyone stay here?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, let\u2019s just see.\u201d We actually ended up getting so many month long bookings from refinery workers, from refinery workers that were coming in from all over Texas and the company was paying a housing allowance, so they would just split the place, and my parents were making two, three, $4,000 depending on the month on these medium term rentals. It was a lot of money. That\u2019s a lot of money for that specific house because they paid it off, and I think they bought it for a hundred grand or something like that.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
If I can, I just want to add that if you\u2019re listening to this and you\u2019re thinking, could my property be a medium term rental? You can list it on Furnished Finder for $99. It\u2019s not a booking site, so no one has the ability to book it and you can just put feelers out there. You can put in the listing description that these are unfurnished photos, but the property will be furnished or you can even use stock images. Just make sure that you\u2019re honest in the description that furnish photos are to come and you can start to get feelers out there and what a cheap way to get a feel for your market and do some research.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s a great tip. That\u2019s a really great tip. A lot of people stumble on that one too because they\u2019re making this multi hundred thousand dollars investment, 2, 3, 4, $500,000 for a house and like, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t know. Am I going to make money? Am I not?\u201d Then it\u2019s like, hey, spend 99 bucks on Furnished Finder and they\u2019re like, oh, yeah, I don\u2019t know, 99 bucks. Don\u2019t know if I can swing that, and it\u2019s like, come on. Just it\u2019s like it\u2019s fine because I had the same struggle I find with people that don\u2019t want to buy rental house on AirDNA or whatever. Sorry Zeona, I didn\u2019t mean to cut you off.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
[inaudible 00:34:47].<\/p>\n

David:
Well, now that Zeona has had Sarah answer very thoroughly and Rob answer very thoroughly, now you have to try to find the crumbs that might\u2019ve been missed and you\u2019re like, okay, where can I contribute here? So don\u2019t feel bad if they\u2019ve already taken your answer, but what\u2019s your feedback on how many bedrooms someone should be looking for in one of these units?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I also really like one bedrooms and it\u2019s for a similar reason as Sarah, Sarah\u2019s bought in a multi-unit, so she\u2019s got a quad and duplex. But for me, I\u2019ve bought a lot of condos and so the one bedroom condo is just a less popular product. People if they\u2019re going to go out and finally buy a property, they want two bedrooms or more. I found that you can get a lot of discounts, it\u2019s great opportunity to get in there. I actually really love that. A lot of investors hate condos, so it\u2019s kind of nice to just have a different avenue if you\u2019re looking at it differently, you\u2019ve got a different lens. Then I was going to say that digital nomads are people that I see a lot in the two bedrooms. My partner and I are digital nomads and it\u2019s always like, okay, where are you going to work? Where am I going to work? Because we\u2019ve got to have some separation when we\u2019re on calls or podcasts or anything like that. And so it is nice to have two bedrooms when you\u2019ve got that kind of situation.<\/p>\n

David:
I think that\u2019s a brilliant strategy, especially in a hot seller\u2019s market when you\u2019re just like, I can\u2019t get anything. You guys are both agents, so you\u2019ve seen what that\u2019s like when we\u2019re in a bit of a nice little pause right now, thank God, where you can actually, buyers have an opportunity to get something for the last eight years. You\u2019re like, oh, I have 70 buyer clients and I put one in contract every month. It\u2019s terrible. But in this strategy, like you said, Zeona, it\u2019s a condo, people don\u2019t want them as much. It\u2019s a one bedroom condo. People don\u2019t want those as much. You actually can make that work and you can go after a motivated seller when everybody else is having a hard time getting a property at all. So I love that, especially in that situation.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, this is very enlightening to me because as a short-term rental investor, one bedrooms are very rarely on the docket for me. I mean, it\u2019s just a non starter for me, all I really want these days are 3, 4, 5 bedroom pluses. I mean, I own one bedrooms if it\u2019s a tiny home and that\u2019s the specific gimmick or the marketing niche that I\u2019m going for, no problem. But a one bedroom condo is something that I wouldn\u2019t even look at no matter how cool it is because the way I think about it is partially beds and heads, but also how much can I actually gross on a one bedroom place?
I am curious, I think you guys mentioned that you book for, you said you only need four every year and you\u2019re doing three month bookings at a time. Is there a specific strategy that you employ whenever you\u2019re trying to get a three month booking? Because for me, a lot of my midterm stays usually start as 30 days stays. Shout out to your book, but they will typically transform to 60 or 90, sometimes 120 days. Is there anything that you do to get longer bookings? Sarah, we can start with you.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Not necessarily. I have it listed on Furnished Finder and like I mentioned, I\u2019m near a large hospital complex, so a majority of my tenant base are traveling nurses and their contracts are 13 weeks. That\u2019s my clientele. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anything that I\u2019m doing on Furnished Finder in particular to attract them. But I know that Zeona, you have a different strategy when you\u2019re listing on Airbnb as far as the timeframe that you have open.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, so when I have medium term only places, so there\u2019s some places that I have that can be short term, but then there\u2019s some cities like Denver and Boulder where you can\u2019t do anything less than 30 days. If I\u2019m doing something like that, then I only open my calendar five weeks out. And the reason for that is that I am fine attracting just one month stays, but I don\u2019t want a lot of vacancy in there. I don\u2019t want somebody to be able to book with a three week gap that I won\u2019t be able to fill.
You have to be a little bit strategic about it. And I don\u2019t let people instant book, I have them make a request because what I\u2019ve found is a lot of these people are driving, they might be going to Austin next or whatever and they have their car with them. And so they might come out two days early or two days later. And so you can massage those dates so that you don\u2019t have as much vacancy. I thought it might be interesting to go into the numbers of a one bedroom condo I have. Would that be helpful?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, definitely, because I wanted to ask about analyzing these things.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, so last year, so it was March 2021, which was super high time. It was really hard to get anything not over asking and everything. It was just very competitive. I had a friend who just was breaking up with her partner and she was like, I\u2019m thinking I might go look for a one bedroom apartment, I\u2019m not sure. And so I thought, okay, let me just take a look at what\u2019s here in Boulder, and I found this great little one bedroom that just totally renovated and she wasn\u2019t interested in it. And so I was like, okay, maybe I\u2019ll just buy this and maybe I can have her rent it from me or something like that.
And so I bought it for 255 and my PITI, it\u2019s 1250. And so with that, I could probably rent it long term for about 1,250 to 1,400, something like that. But with a medium term, I can get 2,400 and that\u2019s kind of the normal price. But because it\u2019s also seasonal, a short term rental in June, I can get 3,000, in July, I can actually get 4,000. And so I\u2019m actually okay with these one month stays that they can actually make us a lot more money.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, that\u2019s awesome. Generally speaking, I believe it, I mean, for the most part in my mind, they\u2019ve always outperformed long term rentals. And like I said, they really aren\u2019t even in some of the areas that I\u2019ve seen them or done them not terribly far from the short-term rental income either, but I have a very specific formula for how I analyze short-term rentals. Zeona, when you\u2019re actually in the throws of analyzing your medium term rental, is there any kind of formula or process that you take to do so?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
We both talk about analyzing them like you would a long-term rental actually. You only have to add in a couple more lines because there\u2019s just not as many expenses as the short term rental. You\u2019re including utilities, you\u2019re going to have to budget for furnishing, but it\u2019s really not that different.<\/p>\n

Rob:
What about you, Sarah?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Yeah, that\u2019s the exact same. There\u2019s three things that increase your upfront renovation costs, includes furniture, your utilities increase, and then the best thing is your rent increases.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, I had a student who has a place out in Anaheim and like you were saying, Zeona, it\u2019s like they have the regulations out there too, so she does it 30 days at a time. And she says that when she\u2019s buying her property, she\u2019s typically doubling what a long-term rental is and she\u2019s starting there. Obviously, that projection is like a long-term rental, medium-term rental, short-term rental. I think she said on a long-term rental, she was making, or I wanted to say it was like 2,500 to 3,000. She was budgeting for a medium term to be anywhere from five to 6,000. Then if the regulations allowed it, a short term rental would probably be like eight to $10,000.
And so she says anytime she doubles what the long term rental is, and that\u2019s just a quick rule of thumb, obviously, it\u2019s not going to apply across the board, but she\u2019s been getting that pretty consistently and she starts with doubling it and then she\u2019ll go and basically just run comps on the market and stuff like that. But curious if there are, when you\u2019re doing any kind of tools or anything like that, is it AirDNA or All The Rooms or Mashvisor? Are any of these big platforms for short term rentals usable when you go into the strategy? Or are you just going straight long term analyzation strategy?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
There is a resource for medium term rentals, it\u2019s called Furnished Finder. It\u2019s the same place that we list our units and it\u2019s where a lot of traveling nurses look, but they actually have a really robust statistics page. It\u2019s Furnishedfinder.com\/stats, S-T-A-T-S, and you\u2019re going to get a lot of that information there. What happens then is then I have clients that come to me and they\u2019re like, \u201cOkay. Yeah, but what do I do with this information?\u201d And so that\u2019s when you really have to put your thinking cap on and you have to think, okay, what\u2019s my population in my market? Like 30 inquiries this year for a two bedroom, one bath in my zip code, is that enough for my unit to stay vacant or so I stay occupied or is that not enough? And so I can\u2019t give a number that works for every market across the country. That\u2019s where investors really need to put their thinking cap on. But I really like that resource because that\u2019s where you\u2019re going to get your tenants.<\/p>\n

David:
That is an incredible resource. I just typed it in when you said that, and I typed in the city of one of the houses where I\u2019m looking to put one and it shows in the last 12 months that they have had 127,000 searches for housing requests in that area and map and property listing page views of 730,000. I would imagine those are pretty solid numbers. That\u2019s a lot of people looking for a house. Probably all I need to know is say yes, let\u2019s move forward with putting an offer on that property.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Then look at your competition in that area, and you\u2019ll see that, I mean, I don\u2019t want to PAFO on anyone, however, there\u2019re really ugly units on Furnished Finder. And so you don\u2019t have to be as beautiful a STR as what Rob does. You just have to beat out your competition. I like to use the analogy, if a bear is chasing, you don\u2019t need to be faster than the bear. You just need to be faster than your friend. And so when you\u2019re looking at Furnished Finder, you don\u2019t have to be the most beautiful unit on Airbnb. It\u2019s a lot easier to be the most beautifully decorated unit on Furnished Finder.<\/p>\n

David:
It shows you how many total rooms are available for rent. It shows you how many houses are available for rent. It tells me that this city ranks 148 in the entire state of California. This is very, very good information.<\/p>\n

Rob:
David just became the ambassador for Furnishedfinder.com.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, you don\u2019t only have to pay for it just showed up right there, but that\u2019s that. When you\u2019re an agent and you\u2019re working with a client who\u2019s trying to figure out, should I buy this property? They have all this what if going through their head, that\u2019s a very solid security blanket that you\u2019re getting that this is how many people are looking to rent a space where you\u2019re at. I mean, it\u2019s pretty cool that it\u2019s easy to find that information that it\u2019s not behind a bunch of paywalls or that it\u2019s not accurate.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
The other thing about Furnished Finder is like if you search it as a client, so you just put in whatever city you\u2019re in and then the number of bedrooms that you\u2019re looking for, it just pulls it up on the map and you can search right around there what people are actually charging per month because they have static rents listed there. It\u2019s not like Airbnb where you\u2019re seeing a nightly rate, but every night could be a different price and it\u2019s hard to understand that data. I find it really useful that sometimes I just get curious and I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, what does San Antonio look like versus Omaha or something like that?\u201d And you\u2019ll find that certain states just don\u2019t have really high medium term rental rents yet and their pricing is still too high. You\u2019ve got to find ones that have the right margin, but you can do a search around the US really quickly.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. We\u2019re going to hit the deal deep dive here in a second, but I have a couple of selfish questions before we move on because I know a lot of people probably are wondering this at home. And so when you go to the medium term avenue, I\u2019m curious, you\u2019re going over 30 days a lot of the time. So that sort of takes you out of the short term rental laws and regulations that might protect you in that aspect. When you\u2019re renting to people 30 days at a time, does that require a lease? Is a lease a standard operating procedure for both of your businesses? Sarah, we can start with you.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
If they are booking outside of Airbnb, then I am setting them up with a lease.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Within Airbnb, you\u2019re not simply because Airbnb has a trust and safety team that can have your back?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
And they don\u2019t really like it when we move guests off the platform.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh no. I mean, if you have a guest that books on Airbnb, let\u2019s say for 90 days, is it fair to ask them to sign a lease in addition to that reservation on Airbnb?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Oh yeah, great question. I have not done that. I find that the protections within Airbnb keep me protected. But if they\u2019re finding me on Furnished Finder, then I\u2019m setting them up with a lease.<\/p>\n

Rob:
What about you, Zeona?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, so I also don\u2019t do it, but I\u2019ve heard people in California specifically being worried about squatters and evictions, so you could. If you\u2019re worried about it, just add that extra layer of safety. I know that Airbnb is trending more towards these longer stays, so they\u2019ll probably be putting in more automations. I\u2019m hoping to see that coming forward where they\u2019ll have, this is the guest name, let\u2019s just put it in this pre-made lease, and then it\u2019s just electronically signed. I think that it\u2019s like the old days of short-term rentals that there just wasn\u2019t any software before and you had to do it all yourself, and then now there\u2019s so many companies that you can pay for all these automations. I think we\u2019re just a little bit behind still for the MTRs.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That makes sense. I don\u2019t do it when I do it on, I really primarily do the medium term rentals on Airbnb and I\u2019ve always felt the same way, Sarah, like the trust and safety team there, for the most part would probably have my back on those types of issues. But I am starting to lean more towards just adding that extra step of having a lease sign that sort of has basic protections like, \u201cHey, if you damage this or this or this, this is what we would charge.\u201d
But I guess the other thing for me, like I said, the wear and tear has been a little tougher, and Zeona, I know you said that, you think the short term rental wear and tear is a little bit tougher. Honestly wondering, do you have any other cleaning procedures that you do on a property? Because one of the things that I\u2019ve been working towards as of this last stay is that I actually want to have a cleaner come in every single month that a guest is there, do either of you have any beefed up cleaning procedure for your medium term rentals?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I try to have a day in between. As much as I hate vacancy, you can, there\u2019s enough demand to have people check out at 10:00 AM check back in at 3:00 PM and just have a whole new guest. But I\u2019ve just found that when it\u2019s been six months, you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re walking into. And this is part of the reason why I stopped using or allowing pets is that we just say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s just do a day in between.\u201d And that gives them enough time to assess anything, maybe get the handyman over if we need any of that, and then just do a deeper clean.
One thing that we do, I have Hospitable, I don\u2019t know if you use that for auto messaging, but we can use it in our medium terms as well. And one of the messages that goes out like day three has the cleaners information in it. I\u2019m not currently requiring it because I just don\u2019t want to have to pay that. Even though you\u2019re passing it on, it\u2019s money that you couldn\u2019t charge for rent. If it\u2019s an extra 200 bucks a month, I want to get that as rent. And so what I do offer is the cleaners name, what their rate is and their phone number and they can reach out to them if that\u2019s something they want.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, that\u2019s a great system. I actually think, I\u2019ve had people ask for my cleaner and they\u2019ve used them in the past.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Totally.<\/p>\n

Rob:
But I think just after this last guest, I\u2019m telling you, man, they were really, it was a family and look, I\u2019m a family\u2026 I got kids, I know what kids do in the house and I\u2019m like, right, I get it.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
It\u2019s hard.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, I show some grace to families, but they really stained all of my carpet and I had to get something to come and steam clean all my accent chairs and it was like a whole thing. One of the systems I\u2019m putting in place is just asking for it like, \u201cHey, happy to book you for more than 30 days. Just note that every 30 days, there will be a new cleaning fee.\u201d And from the people that I know that are in the medium term space that have been doing it, they said that they haven\u2019t had any pushback on that.
I\u2019m going to start doing that simply because honestly, I stayed at my place immediately after that family. Thank goodness I did, I mean, my cleaner did not relay what they were supposed to. I actually had to let them go because of the condition that the house was in. But had I not stayed there, I would not have caught all of the different things that I had to fix. It was supposed to be a 14 day vacation, actually ended up being more like a 12 day vacation, because the last two days were just us touching up magic, erasing the walls, hanging things up again, putting a new baseball. It was like a whole thing. But Sarah, do you have any cleaning procedures or anything like that on the medium term side?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
One tip I got from another investor that I now implement is I have my listing photos printed out and laminated and those are given to the cleaner or put in a utility closet. That\u2019s why they\u2019re laminated. If there is a utility closet, it goes in there. Otherwise, they\u2019re just emailed to the cleaner. Because one of the things that\u2019s kind of my pet peeve is that I worked so hard to decorate the units really beautifully. I own a company that does this for a living, and yet during the cleaning turnovers, they\u2019d put the throw pillows in the wrong room or the chair is a weird way. And so to make things easier, I give my listing photos as well as pretty explicit instructions to the cleaner on what to do.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s good. Yeah, the laminated photos is probably really helpful because theoretically, you would think, oh, they can just look at the listings or the photos on the listing on the phone, and I\u2019m like, they probably don\u2019t do that. I actually also, I didn\u2019t do that, but I just created a whole new checklist specific for medium term rentals when it comes to cleaning, because I found that not only with the medium term rental, you\u2019re not just up keeping the inside of the house, but it\u2019s also the outside of the house. I was walking around my home and everything is dusty, there\u2019s dead leaves everywhere and it\u2019s just a little bit tougher to maintain that.
Usually, in short term rental guests, we come in, we can clean that stuff up, we spot it a lot faster. But when a cleaner is there for a medium term guests, they\u2019re really focused on the inside. Now, I think we\u2019re just going to turn it into a deep clean for every single guest and basically make it a two day thing just because when I have families in there for 60 to 90 days, obviously, it\u2019s pretty tough on everything. That\u2019s it for my selfish questions. David, do you have any other selfish questions before we move on?<\/p>\n

David:
No, I think that they\u2019ve done a very good job being gracious guests, answering all of the selfish questions that I have. I guess maybe my last one would be outside of Furnished Finder, which was very helpful, are there other resources that you would recommend that a medium term rental investor should be familiar with?<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s a softball right there.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Our book.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Well, thanks for asking David. We recently wrote a book called 30-Day Stay: A Real Estate Investor\u2019s Guide to Mastering the Medium Term Rental. And I know that you would like an online resource, which we\u2019re really excited because our book really walks through every single piece of buying an MTR. So someone could pick up, hear about real estate investing, know nothing about cash on cash return, and then pick up our book. All thanks, Rob.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
You got it.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, I just got this in the mail yesterday. I was legitimately stoked. Mark my words, everyone at home listening, this is the next book I\u2019m going to read.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I love that. Well, we\u2019ll check back in because that has a lot of our personal stories in it. We just wanted to make it a little more fun and so we\u2019re going to quiz you later. We\u2019re going to be like, \u201cWhat do you know about Philippines?\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
Please do. Please. I want you to. I want you to check in on me in two weeks. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ll be through it in two weeks, but I\u2019m going to work my way starting tomorrow. I\u2019m going to [inaudible 00:54:25]. I am.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. Rob\u2019s list of books he\u2019s going to read is like Leonardo DiCaprio\u2019s list of ex-girlfriends. There\u2019s always a new one that he\u2019s like, ah, this is the next one I\u2019m going to read. They just get cycled through, don\u2019t they Rob?<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s true. But I never say which book I\u2019m going to read. I just say I have a list of books. But this one I got it and then I also got Real Estate by the Numbers, so I\u2019m trying to\u2026<\/p>\n

David:
This girlfriend is special.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, well, I\u2019m telling you these 30 day guests that I just had or these 90 day guests, they really put some bruises on old Rob here. I\u2019m like, all right, I need to really step up my systems game on the medium term rentals I think. I\u2019m working through that right now simply just for the sake of educating people and how to do it correctly.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, I\u2019m glad to hear that, and I also want to publicly tell you thank you for all of the bruises you take for us on that Scottsdale property. You\u2019re my offensive line and you absorb all of that so it doesn\u2019t get to me letting me sit back here in the pocket like Tom Brady and make my throw, so thank you for that, Robbie.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Amen, I\u2019m here to make you shine my friend.<\/p>\n

David:
Ladies, I know we\u2019re going to talk about it later, but where can people go if they want to get a copy of that book? Does BiggerPockets have a landing page set up specifically for it?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
They do. It is Biggerpockets.com\/pod30. And if you use Sarah or my name, you can get 10% off and Sarah\u2019s with an H and my name is Z-E-O-N-A. You\u2019ll see it in the show notes.<\/p>\n

David:
While you\u2019re there, you might see another book that you like because BiggerPockets dominates the publishing world in the space of real estate, which means that Sarah and Zeona have basically entered into the hall of fame before they\u2019ve even sold a copy. If you use the name David or Rob, you can also get 10% off any other book in that entire bookstore. Here\u2019s my recommendation, buy all of them, put them on a bookshelf and then tell everyone you know, this is the next book that I am going to read and never read it, and you can be as cool as Rob Abasolo.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Here\u2019s my recommendation, use promo code Rob, not promo code David.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes, I will give you that home field advantage. All right, we\u2019re going to move on to the next segment of our show. This is the world famous Deal Deep Dive. In this segment of the show, we dive deep into a particular deal that our guests have done. Sarah, we\u2019re going to start with you. Do you have a deal in mind that we can ask you questions about?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Yes. I have never talked about this deal on a podcast, so you\u2019re hearing it here first.<\/p>\n

David:
Ooh, behind the scenes look. We\u2019ll ask you the question so you won\u2019t have to go through the whole thing here.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Okay, cool.<\/p>\n

David:
First question, what kind of property is it?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Duplex, a side by side duplex.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Nice. Question number two, how\u2019d you find it?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
My investor-friendly real estate agent.<\/p>\n

David:
There you are. Question three, how much was it?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
210,000.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Question four, how did you negotiate it?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Not well, no, I\u2019m just kidding.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
They asked for 210 and I wrote a check. No, I did get, what did I get? I got brand new roof, I got a brand new roof, brand new windows and some closing cost.<\/p>\n

David:
I said they were an investor friendly agent, not a negotiation friendly agent, David.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Yeah. No, just kidding. But yeah, no, new roof, new windows throughout. I was very excited about that.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s pretty good, especially with the way that insurance is working these days. Sometimes having those amenities can keep your insurance low because if you\u2019re investing, this is not related to your thing, but just as a public announcement here. If you\u2019re buying anywhere that bad weather is, insurance is insane right now. I recently bought a house to South Florida. The insurance quote was $26,000 a year for insurance on a short term rental. Making sure it has a new roof and new windows can significantly decrease your expenses. Thank you for sharing that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Wow. Wow.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. How did you fund this deal?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I had an equity partner and they got a conventional loan.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Awesome. And what did you do with it? Was it a flip, BRRR medium term rental?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
The inherited tenant on one side, he is still there and kicking and he\u2019s a long term tenant. Then the vacant unit, I did some renovation and furnished it and it is a medium term rental.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. What was the outcome of this deal?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
The inherited tenant is under market paying 625. Market value is about 900. If I didn\u2019t do anything to his unit, but if I improve his unit, I could probably get 1,200, 1,250. And then for my medium term side, without doing much update to the kitchen, I am getting 1,900 a month.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, I saw that coming. I was like, I know it\u2019s going to be more than that. That\u2019s awesome. Congratulations. I assume once the inherited tenant leaves, will you want to do some work and then turn that into a medium term?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I will. Normally, I\u2019m really liking this kind of hybrid model. A few of my duplexes are medium term on one side and long term on the other. It provides some stability. For those more risk adverse investors out there, that\u2019s a really good way to sleep well at night knowing that you have a long term tenant on one side and also get me through the winter. Frankly, I just didn\u2019t have bandwidth this summer to do a big renovation, and now that it\u2019s winter in Iowa, I\u2019m not going to mess with vacancies and renovations, so I\u2019m going to wait until the spring.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, that\u2019s cool. My house in LA was the trifecta. I had a studio underneath with the long-term tenant. My tiny house was short-term rentals and my main home was a medium term rental.<\/p>\n

David:
Wow. You hit for the cycle.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I\u2019ve done it all. What lessons did you learn from this deal?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Yeah, lessons I learned are, spend money while it\u2019s vacant. There were some repairs that I was like, oh no, I\u2019ll wait until that thing breaks. Then of course, four weeks later, it broke in the middle of a medium term tenant being there. And so if you have the time, money, and energy, just go ahead and improve some of the systems when it\u2019s vacant.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. On this deal, who was your hero?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
The investor friendly real estate agent. He sends me great deals. I send him a text message exactly what I\u2019m looking for, letting him know I\u2019m a 100% committed to buying, and then within days, he sends me a deal.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. I\u2019m going to send him a copy of my book Skill, which he can find at Biggerpockets.com\/skill so he can learn how to negotiate better for you and get a better review the next time you do a Deal Deep Dive and more clients, but good job [inaudible 01:00:56].<\/p>\n

Rob:
And if he uses promo code Rob, he can get 10% off as well.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes. Please make sure he knows that. We need to figure out some way to get Rob some value to be given in this situation. That\u2019s 10% Rob, right there. All right, Zeona, same question. Do you have a deal that you\u2019d like to go over with us?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Sure. I already went through one, but I\u2019m happy to do another. Let\u2019s go for it.<\/p>\n

David:
We\u2019ll go through the questions quick and you can just repeat the stuff that you already said and if there\u2019s new stuff then we\u2019ll expand on that. Question number one, what kind of property is it?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
It\u2019s condo.<\/p>\n

Rob:
How did you find it?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Well, I found it myself on the MLS after that girl got out of her relationship. It\u2019s perfect.<\/p>\n

David:
You are an investor-friendly agent yourself.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I am.<\/p>\n

David:
I suppose you used a stellar investor-friendly agent to find your own deal, right?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yes, myself.<\/p>\n

David:
There\u2019s a line in Braveheart where the guy says something like in order to converse with his equal and Irishman is forced to talk to the God Almighty or something like that. That\u2019s what it reminds me of. In order to get an agent worthy of my level, I had to use myself to find my own deal. All right. How much was this deal?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
It was 255, but it was listed for 265 and I still got it under asking. Then when you\u2019re a real estate agent, you actually get their commission back, so it was even less than that. Yeah, I would think I got 7,000 back at closing.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Very cool. And how\u2019d you fund it?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I just got a regular loan. This one actually was sitting on the market for two weeks because it was a non warrantable condo, which just means that there\u2019s not enough owner occupants in the building, which really common in Boulder. And so nobody could get a loan on it, and so it would have to be a cash only deal. I just jumped on the phone and called everybody I knew until I found one that would say yes. Sometimes you just have to be persistent.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s right. And what did you do with it?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Furnished it right away. I was lucky enough that I was selling another condo that was a three bedroom Airbnb and she needed to get rid of all of her furniture really fast. I sent my friend over and she picked through the furniture and then got everything we needed for the one bedroom.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Very cool. And what was the outcome?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Yeah, it\u2019s a great rental. I had somebody move in that was renting. I owned the unit two doors down, so she was renting it from Airbnb and was like, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to extend.\u201d I moved her over to this unit and she stayed in it almost a year and it was at a 16% cash on cash return. I was feeling really happy about that, and then she bought a property from me. So win, win, win all around.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Chicken dinner.<\/p>\n

David:
When you make your living within real estate, you get those multiple wins out of the same deal. I live with that.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
It\u2019s good. Yeah.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. And who was your hero on this deal?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Okay, so the whole time I was doing this deal, I was in Maui, and so this deal was in Boulder, Colorado. And I had to have an agent on my team go, check out all the furniture, moved it all in, staged the whole place, get it ready for my tenant. All of that happened from Amy, so she\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Thank you very much for sharing your information on your Deal Deep Dives. Those are incredibly helpful. And remember everyone listening, you two can do more deals with the help of BiggerPockets. Simply click on resources and you can find agents that can help you find properties and other vendors that can be the hero on your deal.<\/p>\n

Speaker 5:
Famous Four.<\/p>\n

David:
All right, moving on to the last segment of the show. This is the world famous, Famous Four. In order to avoid the confusion that I have frequently brought on YouTube, we will start by having Sarah answer and then Zeona answer each of these questions because I can see how this could get out of hand. Question number one, what is your favorite real estate book?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
My favorite real estate book is Raising Private Capital by Matt Faircloth.<\/p>\n

David:
Lovely book. Matt is also a lovely man. We just got to see him as San Diego. Zeona?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
My favorite real estate book lately is Profit Like the Pros. Ken Corsini wrote that one for BiggerPockets and I think it\u2019s really fun for people that are new and want to learn about a bunch of different strategies to figure out which one is theirs. It\u2019s such a fun read where you\u2019re just like, \u201cOh my God, I want to do that. Oh my god, I\u2019m so inspired by this.\u201d It\u2019s a lot of cool case studies.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Awesome. I mean, if you use promo code, Rob, then you get 10% off, which is awesome. Great. Favorite business book, we\u2019ll start with Zeona this time.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Gosh, I always get the same one, so I\u2019m not going to do that this time. I think Traction is a really good business book. Yeah, let\u2019s go with that one, Traction.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Sarah?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I like Made To Stick, which is under by Dan and Chip Heath. It\u2019s why some ideas survive and others die.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, all right.<\/p>\n

Sarah:
It\u2019s really good.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Okay, question number three. Sarah, whenever you\u2019re not out there dominating the medium term game, what are some of your hobbies?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
I travel full time. I\u2019m actually calling in from Bangkok, so I think it\u2019s four in the morning in the future. And I own an events\u2019 company, so now I actually get paid to travel, which is dream job.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Very cool. What about you, Zeona?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I love water sports, so I grew up in Maui and I\u2019m actually in Maui right now. And so I love surfing, paddle boarding, anything in the water, snorkeling, all of it.<\/p>\n

David:
Are you anywhere near Kihei?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I am in Kihei as we speak.<\/p>\n

David:
Really?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
The other day I actually paddled out and Brandon and Josh were there. So guys, if you want to stalk the BP guys, just come out here and start surfing.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, that\u2019s where I have a couple condos out there. Not too far away from where Brandon lives.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
There you go.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Batman themed condos.<\/p>\n

David:
Are the whales out there right now?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Not yet. They come in a few weeks. By the time this airs, it will be whale time.<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s super cool when they come, you could just look out there and they\u2019re just everywhere jumping out of the water. Very awesome. All right, my last question. What sets apart successful investors from those who give up, fail or never get started, Sarah?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Being coachable. I think when you are stuck in your own ways and unwilling to change, especially with the changing market or Rob in your case, like changing tenants and tenant demands, you are not going to succeed. So you have to be coachable, trainable, and flexible.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I think it\u2019s important to be uncomfortable and be okay with that because it means that you\u2019re growing. And so it\u2019s like being in new groups, putting yourself out there, just like trying new things. Being scared a lot. I like to say that I\u2019m scared of everything and I\u2019m just constantly trying and doing it anyway. And so I think that\u2019s important to be uncomfortable, get used to it.<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s uncomfortable or comfortable paddle boarding around whales, but that is something that is also very cool.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
It\u2019s scary actually, but beautiful. They\u2019re huge.<\/p>\n

David:
They are. Yes. I mean, everyone knows whales are big, but when you actually see one when you\u2019re in the water, it\u2019s bigger than you can picture.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Like under your board.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
You\u2019re just like, holy man.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Awesome. Well, lastly, can you tell us where people can find out more about you on the internet? And just a friendly reminder to everyone at home to go back and listen to episodes 553 and 563 for more interviews with our awesome, awesome guests today.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I can be found at Zeona McIntyre, Instagram\u2019s probably the best place and you can DM me there and I respond to all my DMs.<\/p>\n

David:
Can you spell that for us, Zeona?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Z-E-O-N-A, McIntyre\u2019s M-C-I-N-T-Y-R-E.<\/p>\n

David:
And if you think that ZMac would be a cool name for Zeona, please DM her.<\/p>\n

Zeona:
Everybody wants to give me a nickname.<\/p>\n

David:
ZMac. I just feel like it\u2019s such an opportunity that like God blessed you with. And if that was me, I would insist that everybody had to call me ZMac. [inaudible 01:08:38].<\/p>\n

Sarah:
David, what\u2019s your nickname?<\/p>\n

David:
I don\u2019t have one. I have such a basic boring name. How do you make something cool out of David Greene? Right?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Hi, I\u2019m Sarah Weaver. There\u2019s not a lot of nicknames there.<\/p>\n

David:
Zeona doesn\u2019t realize what she\u2019s got, right? We\u2019ve craved our whole life to have a cool name like that, and I\u2019m just like a white bread.<\/p>\n

Rob:
My parents had the foresight to name me Robuilt, so this is not an issue for me.<\/p>\n

David:
Very, very nice. If my name was a spice, it would be flower. That\u2019s how boring it is. All right, Sarah, where can people find out more about you?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
My website Sarahdweaver and my Instagram is the same thing, Sarahdweaver.<\/p>\n

David:
And can you spell it for us?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
S-A-R-A-H, D as in David, Weaver, W-E-A-V-E-R.<\/p>\n

David:
Thank you very much for that. And Robuilt, if people want to find out more about you, where can they?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, they can find me on YouTube at Robuilt, on an Instagram at Robuilt and on my birth certificate at Robuilt.<\/p>\n

David:
Not Robuilt underscore, not Rob.built, not underscore Robuilt. Please be very careful, everybody is getting hacked these days and stealing money, so do not send any of us that\u2019s on this show money. The jerks that are out there that are doing this are probably watching this episode. They\u2019re probably making fake profiles for Sarah and Zeona as we speak and they\u2019re going to be hitting you up asking if you want to donate money to their cause. Please don\u2019t do that. You can find me at Davidgreene24 and message me there. You can also miss me on the BiggerPockets platform or YouTube at David Green Real Estate.
All right, this has been an amazing episode and I appreciate you guys for sharing such useful information. A lot of the time people want to just kind of say, ah, here\u2019s the gist of it, buy the book to get the rest. You didn\u2019t do that. You gave us very good stuff. If you\u2019ve shared this much on the podcast, I can only imagine how much good stuff is actually in that book. So head over to Biggerpockets.com\/pod30, use the name David to get 10% off and forget that Rob\u2019s name even exists. Zeona, any last words before we let you get out of here?<\/p>\n

Zeona:
I just really appreciate being here. Thank you guys. We\u2019re excited to get this info into people\u2019s hands because we do really think it\u2019ll help them.<\/p>\n

David:
Sweet. Sarah?<\/p>\n

Sarah:
Reach out if you need anything. We love hearing from people. It really means a lot. As Zeona said, we read all of our DMs and we love it when you guys reach out. So reach out to us on Instagram.<\/p>\n

David:
And Rob?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, go buy the book. Go buy the book. I\u2019m excited. Beat me to reading it. I don\u2019t know if you can. I\u2019m starting tomorrow. Tomorrow\u2019s the day, my book diet.<\/p>\n

David:
Beat Rob to reading a book\u2019s the lowest bar ever set\u2026<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s very true.<\/p>\n

David:
\u2026 in history of bad kind. All right, thank you very much ladies. We appreciate you. We\u2019ll let you get out of here. This is David Greene. For Rob, definitely not a library Abasolo signing off.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n

Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our\u00a0<\/em>sponsor page<\/em><\/a>!<\/em><\/p>\n

Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n


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