{"id":2552,"date":"2021-10-21T23:33:13","date_gmt":"2021-10-21T23:33:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/leukemia-bankruptcy-to-retired-with-250-units-in-7-years\/"},"modified":"2021-10-21T23:33:13","modified_gmt":"2021-10-21T23:33:13","slug":"leukemia-bankruptcy-to-retired-with-250-units-in-7-years","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/frankbuysphilly.com\/leukemia-bankruptcy-to-retired-with-250-units-in-7-years\/","title":{"rendered":"Leukemia & Bankruptcy to Retired with 250 Units in 7 Years"},"content":{"rendered":"


\n<\/p>\n

People often tell each other to \u201c<\/strong>stay positive<\/strong><\/a>\u201d in light of grim circumstances<\/strong> or hard times. This consistent positivity can feel forced when going through something truly terrifying, but it\u2019s exactly what helped Jeffrey Holst<\/strong><\/a> fight cancer, get out of bankruptcy<\/strong>, and retire in only seven years<\/strong>. Once Jeffrey committed to having no bad days<\/strong>, he was able to either change his day that was going poorly or see the positive in everything around him.<\/p>\n

This philosophy helped him spur on new relationships, find new partners<\/strong><\/a>, and close on deals creatively<\/strong>. It was never \u201cwe can\u2019t close on this\u201d for Jeffrey, it was \u201chow can we close on this.\u201d He uses what he likes to call the \u201csideways eight\u201d strategy <\/strong>that allows him to have infinite returns <\/strong>when investing<\/a>, all while giving his partners and private lenders a sizable profit.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey also talks about seeing the positive attributes of negative situations<\/strong>, and how he was able to leave his job as a lawyer and hit <\/strong>financial freedom<\/strong><\/a> due to his cancer diagnosis<\/strong> and later bankruptcy. If Jeffrey was able to dominate the multifamily market with an underwater net worth, think of what YOU can accomplish in the world of real estate investing!<\/p>\n

\n

Brandon:
This is the BiggerPockets Podcast, show 521.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
The Moment you take responsibility for everything in your life is the moment you can change anything in your life. Now, I love that quote, it\u2019s radical responsibility. It\u2019s not my fault that I got leukemia, but I still had to take responsibility for it. And I think that that\u2019s applied to real estate is, yeah, stuff\u2019s going to happen. And same with good and bad days, good and bad stuff\u2019s going to happen to you no matter who you are, no matter what you do.<\/p>\n

Speaker 3:
You\u2019re listening to BiggerPockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors, large and small. If you are here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you are in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com, your home for real estate investing online.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
What\u2019s going on, everyone? It\u2019s Brandon Turner, host of the BiggerPockets Podcast, here with my co-host. Mr. David \u201cNo Bad Days\u201d Greene. What\u2019s up, man? How\u2019re you doing?<\/p>\n

Dave:
There you go. I\u2019m good. I\u2019m actually in Denver at BiggerPockets headquarters right now recording the podcast from ground zero.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Fancy. And I\u2019m actually not in Denver, which is weird that you\u2019re there and I\u2019m not. But I came back home. But you and I were hanging out this past few days, it was amazing. I love hanging out with you, dude. I don\u2019t know, whenever we get to hang out, I just walk away so refreshed. You\u2019re a good soul.<\/p>\n

Dave:
I appreciate that, because I was about to say the same stuff about you, but now I will look like a d-bag if I do that, so I will just accept the nice things you said about me and tell everybody that if you ever get an opportunity to hear Brandon speak and you don\u2019t do it, you will regret it for the rest of your life.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Mutual admiration society. Thank you dude. Yeah, no really, it\u2019s fun hanging out with you. And that\u2019s that. I want to get into today\u2019s quick tip.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Quick tip.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
You know what, today\u2019s quick tip, I\u2019m going to keep it kind of, I don\u2019t want to say light, but I\u2019m going to keep it non-tangible, and that is, adopt the attitude that our guest today has. That\u2019s all I\u2019m going to say. I\u2019m going to let you listen to the show. But adopt this attitude and your life will be changed. But speaking of today\u2019s show, we have Jeffrey Holst. Jeffrey is a real estate investor in the Chattanooga, Tennessee area, who went from being bankrupt, getting leukemia, all the way to having hundreds of rental units and killing it. And I would say it\u2019s largely because, if not entirely, because of his attitude that you\u2019re going to hear more about later. So make sure you listen for that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
You\u2019ll learn a little bit about medium multifamily, kind of like the in between large and small, you\u2019re going to learn about this crazy cool strategy that we actually name right on the show where he utilizes a combination of three different creative strategies to pull off a lot of no-money-down stuff, and you can start using it right now. If you\u2019ve got no credit, like he did, he had no credit when he started and he couldn\u2019t buy stuff or no income, no money, this thing is phenomenal, I think you\u2019re going to like it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
He talked how he uses partners a lot, this no-bad-day attitude, which you could adopt today, I hope you do, help you have a little better life. And really, we go into some steps for understanding your market like, how do you know what a good market to buy is? And Dave, you and Jeff go real in depth on that topic. That is one of my favorite things we talked about today. So all that and more coming. All right. I think that\u2019s all we got. It was a phenomenal show. So I\u2019m excited to let everyone listen to it. Anything you want to say before we jump in?<\/p>\n

Dave:
Today is one of, I think, the best shows we\u2019ve ever done of taking the mindset stuff that Jeffrey talks about, and combining it with practical application within real estate.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I agree.<\/p>\n

Dave:
So the whole win-win, take what you have and make more of it, Jeffrey did a really good job of taking that concept and applying it to raising money, to making it a win for his investors, to structuring deals that were a win for everybody, which just made his own job easier when he scaled his portfolio. So I think that that\u2019s a really interesting thing to pay attention to, is as we talk about the mindset that Jeff has that allowed him to get to where he is, there\u2019s some very clear, practical ways that you can apply that within our specific world of real estate investing.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Perfect man. Perfect. Well, with that said, let\u2019s jump into our interview with Jeff Holst. All right, Jeff. Welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast, man. Awesome to have you here.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Thanks. I appreciate it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. So let\u2019s get into your story. What were you doing before real estate?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I was a bankruptcy attorney.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
A bankruptcy attorney?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Sounds thrilling.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
It\u2019s an interesting field, for sure. It was 2008, \u201909, and \u201910 that I was doing that, so it was probably the best possible time in the world to be a bankruptcy attorney.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good time. So are you still doing that right now or that\u2019s the old you?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah, that\u2019s the old me. I haven\u2019t practiced law actually since 2010. I actually was diagnosed with leukemia in 2008, and it kind of distracted me a little bit, as you might imagine. And what ended up happening is, I had another attorney that worked for me and he quit a week before I got diagnosed, which was bad timing. So we went from two attorneys to zero, literally like overnight. And as a result of that, I ended up going personally bankrupt in 2010. I didn\u2019t really want to do that work kind of anymore after going through that myself.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
What led to that original bankruptcy? I thank you for talking about it here. So what led to that?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Well, it was a couple things. One, I didn\u2019t start investing in real estate soon enough because that would\u2019ve supported me when I couldn\u2019t work, but I had the small firm and my overhead was about $6,000 a week. And we went from making 10,000 a week to zero right away. And so instead of making four, we were going negative six every week. And I did that for months and months and months, and that\u2019s what caused it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Dang. Man. And leukemia is no joke. Did you have to go through treatment for that, I\u2019m assuming, and all of that?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. I actually still technically have leukemia. It\u2019s called chronic myeloid leukemia, and it\u2019s treated by a one-a-day oral chemotherapy. It\u2019s like a daily reminder that I might die one of these days. It\u2019s pretty fun.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Well, nothing like a daily reminder that you\u2019re going to die, it spur you onto some real estate. How\u2019d you even discover real estate? Why real estate? What was the build up to that?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I\u2019m actually a really weird guy. So when I was like 14, 15, I would sneak out of my bedroom late at night and watch nefarious television by which I mean Carlton Sheets, No Money Down infomercials. I literally was that guy. I was like 14 and I\u2019m going to sneak out of my room and watch how to buy real estate with no money down infomercials.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And so I was always interested in it. My parents had a four or five rentals when I was growing up. So I think I always had a little exposure to it and that definitely helps pique the curiosity.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
First deal, here we are 2010, I\u2019m assuming its after that or was it before that you got started?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Actually, when I was in law school, I met this guy who was flipping houses in Detroit and he was doing pretty well and he was paying for law school by flipping houses. And so I did actually do one flip when I was in law school, and by do a flip, we bought a house for like $4,500 or something like that, and sold it for 8,000. So it wasn\u2019t a huge amount of money, but when you\u2019re not making any money and living on student loans, an extra two grand for your share of profit, it was pretty good. So that was my first deal. That was like 2005 or \u201906. But then in 2011 after I had quit practicing law, I took a job, I moved from Michigan to Chattanooga. And when I got down here, I thought, \u201cI got to do something in case I can\u2019t work.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And so I just said, \u201cWell, what do I know makes money no matter what?\u201d And the only thing I could think of was real estate. So I just started buying real estate. But it was challenging because I didn\u2019t have any credit or any money. I actually had a negative net worth because I had 100,000 in student loans that didn\u2019t get discharged in bankruptcy. So negative, 100,000 net worth and no money, I had to be a little creative.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Let\u2019s walk through the very first one you did. I want to get a little bit of your mindset that you\u2019re like, \u201cI got no money, I\u2019m just going bankrupt, negative net worth, I\u2019m going to go invest in real estate.\u201d How did you even get that process started and what was the very first deal?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Okay. So the first deal I did was actually a condo, and it was with the same guy that I met in law school. I started saving money right away. I got a pretty good job, that\u2019s the nice part about having a lot of education, I have an MBA and a law degree. I got a pretty good job, and I didn\u2019t have really any consumer debt. So I just had my student loan and a rent payment because I lost my house to foreclosure during the bankruptcy. So I just started saving my bonuses. So I had saved up like 17 or $18,000. And we bought this condo for $30,000 for cash, and it was a bank-owned foreclosure.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And remember, this is 2011, bottom of the market. It had been $100,000 condo a few years earlier. So we just knew it was a good deal, but I still had to put in like $17,000 out of the 20 I had to my name. And my wife said to me, she said, \u201cListen, if this doesn\u2019t work out, you can never buy real estate again.\u201d Fortunately, it did work out, so it\u2019s fine. And we actually still own that condo today, it\u2019s probably worth about 150, something like that now.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Wow, wow. Okay. So how did you even buy it? You had no credit, you said, so how were you able to buy it without the credit?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Like I said, I saved up about $20,000.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh, that\u2019s right, your partner.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And my partner in that deal, he also had a little savings, so we actually paid cash for it. It was 30,000. We started an LLC and we each put in $17,500. So I went from having 20,000 savings and the negative net worth to having $2,500 like overnight. So my wife was not super on board, but she\u2019s a saint, so she let me do it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
So what was the plan? You\u2019re like, we\u2019re going to rent this thing out, make a few hundred bucks a month in cash flow,\u201d and that was the plan?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. I thought about it quite a bit. And I\u2019d been reading about real estate and watching infomercials for 15 years at that point, so I had the idea that it was more of, yeah, it would pay for itself, but more, it was an appreciation play. It\u2019s in a really good area. And we knew that the market was kind of goofy at that point. And I was just very, very certain that there buying opportunities in 2011, just because I had been paying attention to the market for as long as I had. And actually, as a bankruptcy attorney, I was exposed to a lot of real estate investors, and a lot of people that were going bankrupt because the real estate market was crashing.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And I was looking at it, thinking about it quite a bit before I quit practicing law. So I had really paid a lot of attention to that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, that makes sense. Keep going. This is a good story. So where\u2019d you go next? What\u2019d you buy?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
You had asked about the mindset, because that\u2019s actually the harder part. It\u2019s one thing to just find a deal and go buy it when you have the cash sitting in the bank to do it, but it also was very scary. Everyone\u2019s first deal is terrifying, but in this case, I had just gone through bankruptcy so I really didn\u2019t have the option of going bankrupt. I didn\u2019t even have a safety net, there was nothing. If this didn\u2019t work out, I was just out of luck. So I just said, \u201cI got to do this.\u201d That\u2019s actually, I think, why I partnered with my one partner in that deal, is because I wanted to find someone that already he was doing the kind of thing I wanted to do and freeload off of his knowledge.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And it\u2019s been a really good strategy. We ended up buying another duplex in the same building about two or three months later. This was just dumb luck on my part, but we named our LLC after the address of the building and this condo actually there\u2019s like 20 units in the building, and they\u2019re like 123 main street, one, two, three, four, five, etc. And so we had bought number 10, and the number 14 came available. So when he went to buy it, I said, \u201cWell, we already have this LLC that has the name of that address in it, we ought buy it together, and I didn\u2019t have any money left.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And so he ended up actually loaning me the money for my share of that from his personal resources. So I was able to get my second deal, essentially $0 down like that. And then it got a little trickier, because I still didn\u2019t have any money and no credit. So I found a private money guy who was a relative of mine, and I said, \u201cHey, we\u2019ve got these two paid off condos and they\u2019re going well, they\u2019re cashflowing a few hundred dollars a month.\u201d Actually, they were cashflowing pretty well because they were paid off.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, no mortgage there.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
It was like 800 a month or 900 a month, something like that. I said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you give us a small mortgage on each one and then put in some of your own money and we\u2019re going to go buy this duplex. And it was like down the street a little ways. And I think it was like $75,000. So we got $25,000 mortgage on each condo, and then this other investor put in 25,000, and we each put in 25,000 to buy this duplex, again for cash, because this is 2011 and the market was different than it is now. We actually still own all three of these assets, and that duplex is on a double lot and we ended up later buying the one next to it. And I think the four lots together that we own are probably worth like close to a million dollars, just because the market has been insane the last few years.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Can we dig in a little bit to the mindset of that private lender? How did you approach them? Why do you think they said yes? Can you talk about that a little bit? A lot of people are thinking, \u201cWell, that sounds great, but I don\u2019t know anybody that\u2019s a multi-millionaire in my life to give all that money.\u201d Is that who this person was, super rich, or?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Well, he had $75,000 sitting around, so he at least had that much, which was more than I had at the time. It certainly seemed rich to me. I don\u2019t think he\u2019s super rich though, although he did loan us a fair amount of money over years. But look, when he did that deal, he got 6% interest on his $50,000 that he had put on the condo loans, and then he got a third of the equity in the deal that we were doing. And it was a deal that made good sense, it going to be a free and clear duplex, it was going to cash flow like $1,000 a month. So he\u2019s looking at it and going, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to get 6% on this 50,000, and my 25,000 is going to have some equity upside and also going to give me a few hundred dollars a month in cashflow.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
So it was actually a really good deal for him. And I think when you\u2019re trying to deal with private money lenders, the secret is to think about it from their perspective, like, what would entice you to make that deal? So I literally just said, \u201cHey, like if I had $75,000 and someone proposed buying this duplex, how would it be attractive to me?\u201d Because our original plan was, we\u2019re just going to be like, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t you loan us $75,000 and we\u2019ll pay you 6% interest.\u201d And he was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know, inflation. I\u2019m not sure.\u201d And then I was like, \u201cWait, wait, I got it. This is what we\u2019re going to do. We\u2019ll give you some collateral, the condos that were paid off, and then we\u2019ll also give you some interest on the money loan, and we\u2019ll give you a chance to participate in the deal.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And that actually ended up being one of the smartest things I ever did because the same guy loaned us about $700,000 over the next five years and never had collateral again after that. It was always 6% interest to the company that the three of us owned together. He just loaned the money to the company and we\u2019d go buy something for cash.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s cool.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. And when you pay 6% interest only, it sounds like a lot now, but back in 2010, \u201911, that was a fair rate. But even still, it\u2019s a pretty fair rate for private money, people pay a lot more than that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. I love that you put yourself in their shoes and you\u2019re like, \u201cWhat would make this attractive for them?\u201d And so many investors, I think when they get started, they\u2019re just thinking, \u201cMe, me, me, me. How do I get this? And why can\u2019t I find an investor to give me a 6% loan?\u201d It\u2019s because 6%, it\u2019s not that high, you can probably get that in the stock market on average. Now, granted, back then nobody knew what was happening to the world. But you give equity, you gave some whatever collateral, we call that oftentimes cross-collateralization, a big fancy word. You put the other properties that you have maybe paid off or you have a lot of equity in it, you put those up and say, \u201cHey, if something goes wrong, you can take this one as well.\u201d<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, that\u2019s smart, man. Do you still do that today, that kind of stuff? Partnerships and all that.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I do. In fact, I was just having this conversation with someone yesterday. I have never done a deal without a partner.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Really?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. Several times I\u2019ve had smaller deals under contract and I was going to buy them, and then at the last minute I was like, \u201cEh, I think I\u2019ll bring someone in on it.\u201d Because what happens is, just the other day I had this duplex, it was still under contract actually, and I was going to buy it, and I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m finally going to buy something on my own. 250 units.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m excited about this duplex because it\u2019s going to be my own deal.\u201d And I was talking to a friend of mine about it that is a really smart guy, and he\u2019s always wanted to invest in real estate. And he\u2019s like, \u201cMan, I wish I could find something like that.\u201d And I was like, \u201cAll right, I\u2019ll split it with you.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Because like I really want to help people get into real estate, and he\u2019s a friend of mine, so I was like, \u201cWell, we\u2019re just going to split it.\u201d So again, another partnership has been born.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s cool. All right. If we can only move. Why don\u2019t we speed way forward and go to the end of your story and then we\u2019ll come back and fill in the blanks. So what are you at today? What are you doing today? What\u2019s your portfolio look like? And what\u2019s your business like?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. I\u2019m mostly in multifamily now, and I don\u2019t mean duplex multifamily, I mean like a mid-sized multifamily. I target 10 units to like 50 units. So we\u2019re at about 250 units, mainly those types of buildings. I bought 60 units so far this year, and we\u2019ve got another 120 under contract. And we do some of that through JVs. In fact, we bought a 16 unit this year using the exact same strategy that we used back for the first duplex. It was this, have somebody put up all of the money, actually, and get interest on that, and they loan it to the company that we formed, and then we each own a third of it together.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
So we did that exact deal. I\u2019ve tried to think of a creative name, because you\u2019re so good at that, like BRRRR and stuff. But I was talking to Matt Faircloth about this a couple of months ago and he\u2019s like, \u201cYou should ask Brandon. Brandon will come up with a name for you for this structure.\u201d Because he was like, \u201cI\u2019m the private money guy and I\u2019ve never even heard of anyone doing it like that.\u201d<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s funny. I got to think on that one. Let\u2019s go through this strategy real quick. So the guy or the gal, whatever, the partner lends the money for the down payment and the repairs and all that stuff that you need to the LLC, the LLC then takes and buys the property, and then you just split everything equal partners?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. Or whatever percentage we negotiate.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Or whatever percentage.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
So depending on how much money it is. We\u2019ve done this where somebody might get, if they didn\u2019t want to be on the bank loan, we can keep them under 20% equity, they don\u2019t have to sign the guarantee on the loan. Sometimes we\u2019ll give them like 15% and a little bit more interest or we\u2019ll give them a third and a little bit less interest. And it\u2019s all negotiable, but it really is like a combined debt equity play. And what I learned is, the banks don\u2019t care, they just want to see the money comes from the partnership group. A lot of people are like, \u201cWell, banks won\u2019t let you do it if you don\u2019t have skin in the game.\u201d And it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, we do have skin in the game. The skin in the game is our other partner\u2019s equity.\u201d<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. That\u2019s awesome. It\u2019s a combination. I don\u2019t have a good name for you, but it\u2019s a combination of different strategies, you\u2019re doing a little bit of private money, a little bit of partnerships, and combining it together. In the book on Investing in Real Estate With No and Low Money Down, the longest book title and history, I have a whole chapter called Creative Combinations. And that\u2019s because the best no money down deals or low money down deals are typically not one thing, it\u2019s usually two or maybe even three. You can buy in that strategy with the BRRRR strategy maybe. And now you can build some massive equity in it. You got three different strategies all in one. It\u2019s cool. It\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Exactly. And then we BRRRR these deals too, because their value add multifamilies to them. What we do is we\u2019ll actually BRRRR the deal and pay back our investor all of his capital, eliminate that interest payment, and then keep the property for the three of us.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s just so smart.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
That\u2019s worked out pretty well. It\u2019s allowed me to buy a lot of real estate with very little of my own money involved.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Jeffrey, when you look at the numbers on some of these deals after you refinance out and you pay back the people that you borrowed money from, what\u2019s your typical ROI that you\u2019re seeing on most of these deals?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
It depends on if you\u2019re looking at my personal ROI or the ROI for the deal. If it\u2019s my personal, it\u2019s like sideways, it\u2019s infinite return because I didn\u2019t put any money in, that\u2019s my favorite. One of my partners, when I explained this strategy to him, he was like, \u201cWe need to name our company Sideways Eight. And I was like, \u201cI\u2019m not doing that.\u201d So for us, it\u2019s really high, but for the investors, they\u2019re usually looking at\u2026 Because they\u2019ll get 6% interest on their money, and then they\u2019ll get paid off in like 18 or 24 months, and then they get the equity upside.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
So it\u2019s really hard to count an IRR unless you\u2019ve actually liquidated the asset and we almost never sell anything, but the last one we sold, the investors, there was two guys that put up the money on that one. They made, it was like 27% annualized return over a two-and-a-half-year period. That\u2019s, I think fantastic return for them. And then of course our return is infinite. I think I put like $130,000 in profit to myself on that deal and had no money.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I\u2019ve got a name for it. I\u2019m going to give you two options, you tell me what you like better. Because we like alliteration, so it\u2019s not an acronyms, it\u2019s illumination. There\u2019s the infinite investing strategy, infinite investing, just like the Sideways Eight, so the II, or we call it the triple threat, which is actually a jujitsu move. But threat is that the three things, the private money, the partnership and the BRRRR. Wrap it together, it\u2019s a triple threat. That\u2019s how you do no money down.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Those are both solid. I would have to go as infinite investing though, I like that, because of Sideways Eight. We should just call it like Sideways Eight Investing.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Sideways Eight is not bad, I just wish that there was an alliteration in there because people remember the-<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
My partner\u2019s going to be super Joe if we call it Sideways Eight though, because he wants to name his company that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It is pretty good.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Sideways Seven, and just drop one of them.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah, yeah. Sideway Seven, right? It\u2019s not quite the same one. That\u2019s like a hockey stick, I think, or something like that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Maybe there\u2019s like an E word for eight, or either an A word or an E word instead of sideways, I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Or could go like the old school weatherman thing and call it like ESPN Ocho, which is called like Ocho Investing.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Ocho investing. That\u2019s not bad. ESPN Eight, The Ocho. Yeah, that\u2019s great.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Well, I was going to ask, you said there\u2019s three ways that you\u2019re securing their investment. The first is you secure it with the property, the next is they get a fixed return of 6% and then you will let the guy participate in the deal. Is that still basically how you\u2019re structured now?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. I do some traditional syndication also, but again, smaller deals. My strategy has been pick a market that I like, and I\u2019m in couple of markets, Chattanooga, still in Metro Detroit, not in the city though, but in the suburbs. So pick markets that I really understand and like, and then target stuff that other people aren\u2019t targeting. And I find there\u2019s like a soft spot in the market between like about a million dollar minimum purchase price to like about four or five million, the five million and up you get all the big syndicators are jumping after it, and under a million, you start competing with like mom and pop people.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Actually, one of your previous guests is in Chattanooga, and he said there\u2019s only three people in Chattanooga that do what I do and I\u2019m one of them. So I get it, he\u2019s right, there\u2019s only three of us.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I call it the medium multifamily, medium multifamily. Because they\u2019re like small multifamily everyone talks about, and then large, that\u2019s very much medium multifamily, another alliteration for you there. In my world view of me dealing with these things, it\u2019s incredibly challenging at times, because you\u2019re not big enough to get the massive economies of scale, but it\u2019s incredibly rewarding if you figure out how to manage them right, and I want to go into that here in a minute and figure out how you\u2019re able that. Because I\u2019m in a bottom, there\u2019s always a headache for me in that size.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Oh, you\u2019re going to like my strategy on that actually.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah, I\u2019m excited. I\u2019m excited to hear this. So I love it because, again, it\u2019s bigger than most newbies can get in and do. You\u2019re not competing with 99% of people listening to the show because either people are way above that or below that, so that\u2019s genius. And again, understanding the area and having some good system for management. So yeah, that\u2019s cool. And 250 units and 60 so far this year, you\u2019re killing it on this. By the way, I\u2019m changing my mind, I like Sideways Eight Investing. I think I\u2019m going to go support that one.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Sideways Eight, okay.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
He\u2019s right, it\u2019s not an alliteration, but it\u2019s clever, I like it.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
But we have to credit my partner then because he\u2019s really the guy that came up with it, and he\u2019s actually got the best name in all real estate, his last name is Leverage.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Really? No way.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Literally, Leverage is his name. So that\u2019s like the ultimate leverage is Sideways Eight. So Brian, thank you for that-<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Brian Leverage.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
\u2026 we\u2019re going to go Sideways Eight Investing. Yeah.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
We could just call it The Leverage Investing Strategy.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. We call it Leverage Investing. It\u2019s solid.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. That\u2019s pretty solid. Leverage, who\u2019s that? His parents knew what he was going to do. I guess it\u2019s not really his parents, his great, great, great, grandpa knew what he was going to do.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
No. In Tennessee, it\u2019s spelled a little different, it\u2019s like reg instead of lever-age, but it\u2019s close enough.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Well, close enough. All right. Let\u2019s talk about how you\u2019re able to take down, not necessarily buy, because we get the Sideways Eight investing strategy now or the Infinite investing. Isn\u2019t Infinite investing too much like infinite banking and everyone has-<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
It is. It\u2019s too much like that. We\u2019re going Sideways Eight investing.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Sideways Eight. Side Eight. You could do Side Eight, it is a little shorter. Side Eight.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. Side Eight is good too.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That sounds like Side Eight.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. It\u2019s better than Side Ocho, I think,<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I agree. The Side Eight Investing. I like that a lot. We get how you\u2019re buying it, but how\u2019s that model work? How are you managing those size?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I almost feel bad saying this because my partners will be like sad when they realize the secret, but I\u2019ll tell you anyway because I like you guys. I only pretty much partner with property managers. So my friend Brian who came up with Side Eight Investing, he\u2019s a property manager, owns a property management company. And then my partner from law school all the way back in the day, when he got out of law school started a property management company, and so I partner with him. And those are my two primary partners.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Now, I do have a lot of people that come in and out of deals with us, but those are the guys that I do the majority of my investing.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s smart. That\u2019s really smart. I guess in a way, I did that too. Brian Murray who is my partner in Open Door Capital, he owns Washington Street Management. And so when we bought all these mobile home parks, 2,000 in last year, it was just like, \u201cTake care of it.\u201d And he just took care of it. And now we\u2019re bringing it in house, but with Brian.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Well, I was thinking about that actually earlier, you\u2019re much smarter than me because you are-<\/p>\n

Brandon:
You too.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
No really, because you didn\u2019t go to law school. That was a smart move. They know you were thinking about it and you didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Oh yeah. I was going to. There you go. I\u2019ve probably heard from 20 attorneys in my life when I say, \u201cOh yeah, I was going to go to law school.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, you are so much smarter than me.\u201d Because I\u2019ve never heard a lawyer say, \u201cI love being a lawyer. It\u2019s the best job ever.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. I always say I\u2019m a recovering attorney. And then I actually make it a life mission to talk attorneys into quitting practicing law. I\u2019ve done it through now.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n

Dave:
That\u2019s a nice little side project there I want to ask you about, many people did take that road of going to college, racking up a lot of student debt. Obviously, a degree in law\u2019s going to be better than some of the things that people get. And it could be discouraging to think, \u201cOh, I screwed up. I should have went into full-time real estate, instead I went in, I did this.\u201d But you really took your knowledge of, you were a bankruptcy attorney and I\u2019m sure you saw what happens when assets get divvied up, and you took some of the connections that you have in that world and you\u2019ve used them to create partnerships.<\/p>\n

Dave:
So what advice do you have for people that are, they\u2019re already a doctor, they\u2019re already an attorney, they have a good job, they\u2019re making good money, but they also recognize, \u201cI\u2019m going to be in this thing, this rat race forever.\u201d How do they use the skills they have from the career they started to amplify the success they can have with real estate investing?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Well, first of all, law is actually a great thing if you want to get into real estate, learning about contracts, learning about mortgages, securities, things like that is super handy. But I think in Kiyosaki\u2019s Board Game, you get these cards and you\u2019re assigned a different occupation based on your randomly at the beginning of the game. And one of the things that I always found interesting is it seemed to me that if you were a mechanic and had really low expenses, it was pretty easy to win the game, get out of the rat race, and it was a little bit harder if you were a doctor or a lawyer.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
But if you did manage to win the game as a doctor or a lawyer, because your expenses were higher, you were doing awesome. So what you have to do is you have to leverage wherever you\u2019re at. So if you\u2019re a doctor and you have high income, you have the opportunity to invest in other people\u2019s deals, you\u2019ve got cash, so you have opportunities that people like me when I was\u2026 It\u2019s ironic that I had low expenses. The reason I had low expenses is because of falling into this bankruptcy trap. Otherwise, I might never have been able to do what I did.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
In fact, I have this thing where, when I was 17, I said, \u201cI\u2019m never having another bad day.\u201d And I got diagnosed with leukemia at 30 and people would come into the office and they\u2019d say, or they came into the hospital and say, \u201cOh, you must be having a bad day today.\u201d And I was like, \u201cNo, I didn\u2019t find out until 10 o\u2019clock at night, my day\u2019s going pretty well.\u201d But I even have my coffee mug, No Bad Day. So I just use all the time, constantly talking about not having bad days. But the thing is, somewhere in the world right now, someone\u2019s having the best day of their life. Somewhere in the world, someone\u2019s having the worst day of their life.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
So objectively, the day is neither good, nor bad, it\u2019s really just how you perceive it. So when I say, \u201cThat day was a good day for me,\u201d it felt that way at the time, and then in retrospect, honestly, if I hadn\u2019t gotten leukemia, I might\u2019ve still been playing this someday I\u2019m going to invest in real estate game and I wouldn\u2019t be able to do all the amazing stuff I\u2019ve done the last few years. Right before COVID, I climbed to Mountain Kilimanjaro. I took a month off and went to Africa in February of 2020. And this year, I went to Puerto Rico for a month.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
People don\u2019t get to do that unless they developed finding until freedom and real estate\u2019s a great way to do it, and I would\u2019ve never done that as a lawyer. So I would say, to answer your question in a roundabout way, take advantage of the situation you\u2019re in and recognize that you have to take responsibility for everything that came before and just move forward.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Well, I think if you\u2019re asking yourself, is this a good day or a bad day, it\u2019s very funny you say that, because I literally just committed a week ago to never having a bad day. From now on, if I catch myself thinking that, I will do something to either see good in it or make good happen. And so I\u2019m new on that journey, but I like that you brought that up.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
25 years, man. It\u2019s so possible to do it, but it doesn\u2019t happen right away. I\u2019m going to give you, I wasn\u2019t going to go on to this tangent, but I need to tell you this, because it\u2019s really important for you, is the first day that I said I wasn\u2019t going to have bad days, I was in a dark spot. My parents were going through a divorce, I broke up with my girlfriend, but I was 17, so it seemed worse than it was. I actually went into the bathroom with a knife and I don\u2019t know what I was thinking, but I put this knife on my wrist and I was like, \u201cGod, that hurts. I don\u2019t really want to do that.\u201d And I go, \u201cYou know, I live in America and a middle-class family in the suburbs, my life can\u2019t be that bad. I\u2019m young and healthy.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
So I\u2019m like, \u201cToday, I\u2019m just going to decide it\u2019s a good day.\u201d And this is pre-YouTube, so I didn\u2019t know what mantras or affirmations were and stuff. And I just said out loud, 10 times, today\u2019s a good day, and the next day was not a good day. So I just kept doing that. And it probably took about a month of saying today\u2019s a good day out loud. Every time I saw a mirror, every time I got in the car, every time I was in a room alone, pretty much anything I could think of to trigger that, I would say out loud, today\u2019s a good day.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And then one day I walk into a 7-Eleven guy behind the counter says, \u201cHow are you doing today?\u201d And I go, \u201cI never have bad days.\u201d I didn\u2019t even think about it, it just came out from inside of me. And then I went, \u201cHoly, I can never have bad days.\u201d And the thing is, Tony Robbins talks about this, it\u2019s the Reticular Activation System, you train your brain to recognize the familiar. And if you are used to seeing the positive and everything, you\u2019re embracing that, you walk outside and the sun hits your face and you\u2019re like, \u201cThat\u2019s nice.\u201d Stop for a second and say, \u201cThis is really nice. It\u2019s a nice day.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Or if your car starts go, \u201cHey, this is great, my car starts.\u201d I know it sounds weird, but it rewires your brain and there\u2019s science behind this. I\u2019ve read books on it and stuff now, but back in the day, I didn\u2019t know it, I just did it. And it\u2019s the greatest decision I ever made because it allowed me to do things like when I got sick, I thought I was going to die. You have to understand when I got diagnosed, my white blood cell count was so high, the nurses, not the doctors because they didn\u2019t have official diagnosis were treating me in a way that knew I was going to die.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
In fact, I knew one of the nurses because she was a childhood babysitter of mine and she\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m really sorry you\u2019re here. This is really terrible.\u201d And she\u2019s all crying and stuff, and I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m actually really happy to be here because I haven\u2019t see you in 20 years and that\u2019s exciting for me because I only look for positive in everything no matter what.\u201d But I think she thought I was in insane, literally insane. But again, that\u2019s still one of the best days of my life. So the fact that I went through that day and felt positive about where I was, it allowed me to figure out what I needed to do to get healthy and stay alive, and now I\u2019m here, 13 years later, it\u2019ll actually be like 13 years next week, and no bad days for 25 years. It\u2019s amazing<\/p>\n

Dave:
Brandon and I talk a lot about the power expectations play in our lives. And I promise, I will relate this to real estate. The idea of a good day or a bad day is like you said, objectively, there are no bad days, it just depends where your expectation was. If you had very high expectations the sun hitting your face, it\u2019s supposed to hit my face. You don\u2019t look at that like a blessing. And it sounds like what leukemia did was it really lowered your expectations for what you expected out of life, you\u2019re just happy to be alive. And so now all these things that happen, because very easy to have a good day.<\/p>\n

Dave:
And these problems that real estate bring apart, they don\u2019t really seem like that big of a problem compared to dying. And I think what I\u2019m really getting at here is we all know if you want to make people wealth through real estate, you got to get into one deal, you got to get that first deal and it will all start to come together. But the expectations that you\u2019re not going to lose money, it\u2019s not going to be stressful, you\u2019re not going to make a mistake, they\u2019re so high when you\u2019re new, especially when you\u2019re listening to a podcast like this and it\u2019s all success stories, Brandon moved to Hawaii, David\u2019s had a successful career.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Jeffrey here, he\u2019s on the podcast talking about what he did. The expectations are, \u201cI got to be that.\u201d That is ridiculous. And so I really think that boundary is what stops most people from getting involved. And what you mentioned when you\u2019re raising money is you\u2019re actually just trying to set expectations with the person you\u2019re raising it from, what do they expect? What return do they expect? What safety do they expect? And then how do I meet or exceed that expectation?<\/p>\n

Dave:
I think Jeffrey, we\u2019re going to get back into your story in more practical details of how you buy properties, but what I\u2019d love everyone to hear is the reason you got ahead was that you had lower expectations for what the deal should look like, especially when you were new, you built momentum and then started to raise expectations on the deal accordingly, but that has nothing to do with being happy in life. You could make a bazillion dollars in real estate if your expectations where nothing is supposed to go wrong, my car is always supposed to start. It\u2019s so hard to be happy.<\/p>\n

Dave:
I just went through an experience when I did my TED Talk where my car didn\u2019t start the day of the thing. And I feel like that was God\u2019s way of reminding me, \u201cDon\u2019t expect everything in life is supposed to be easy, you just show up and you do your TED Talk and it goes great.\u201d When those little things go wrong, it reminds you how fragile a lot of life is. And it makes it easier to be happy when your car does start. I think in addition to all the practical insight you\u2019re giving us here, that might be the most powerful thing that you\u2019ve said so far, was those lowered expectations made it easier to get going.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I\u2019m actually super glad you pointed that out because that\u2019s actually why I wanted to come on your show. The real estate stuff is cool, but there\u2019s a million people that have a lot of real estate. I love real estate, like I said, I watched infomercials about it when I was 14, I\u2019m a weirdo, and I would drive around when I was first 16, I\u2019d see these big abandoned buildings and be, \u201cSomeday, I\u2019m going to own that.\u201d I\u2019m glad I didn\u2019t ever buy the big abandoned building, but that\u2019s a different issue entirely. But that\u2019s literally me, but at the same time, I was terrified to do it until I got sick. And then when I got sick, I was like, \u201cWell, what do I have to lose? You can\u2019t count on the future, you can\u2019t count on your life.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And I was looking at this and going, \u201cLook, my wife, she helped support me when I went through law school, I owe it to her to make sure that if I die tomorrow, she\u2019s fine.\u201d So that was a big motivator for me, and you\u2019re right, it was about changing my perception. I wouldn\u2019t phrase it necessarily as lowering expectations, but when you said about starting your car, I\u2019m glad you brought that example up because I use that a lot, when my car wouldn\u2019t start, I would go, \u201cI\u2019m so glad that mechanics exist and somebody can fix this for me because I\u2019m not a mechanic.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
So it was just about reframing whatever you were at. Actually Hal Elrod has this thing he says that the moment you take responsibility for everything in your life is the moment you can change anything in your life. Now, I love that quote, it\u2019s radical responsibility. It\u2019s not my fault that I got leukemia, but I still had to take responsibility for it. And I think that that applied to real estate is stuff\u2019s going to happen. And same with good and bad days, good and bad stuff\u2019s going to happen to you no matter who you are, no matter what you do, no matter what how good you are at what you do, good and bad stuff will happen.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Good and bad stuff are going to happen to your investing career, it\u2019s going to happen in your personal life, but if you look at it and you say, \u201cI\u2019m going to focus on the positives and I\u2019m going to do what I can to mitigate the negatives.\u201d Buddha has this thing, I\u2019m not Buddhist, but Buddha has this thing where he says, and it\u2019s about worry, but I think it applies to almost everything in life, \u201cIf there\u2019s nothing you can do about, it doesn\u2019t help to worry about it. So you might as well ignore it.\u201d And if there is something you can do about it, still doesn\u2019t help to worry about it, you should just go fix it. I feel like that\u2019s the strategy in real estate, some stuff you can do something about it.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Well, if you can do something about it, go do it. And if you can\u2019t do anything about it, then just mitigate it to the extent you can and move on because you\u2019re going to learn from it.<\/p>\n

Dave:
So now that insight you have, that perspective you have, how would you say that has changed your strategy when it comes to both raising money, choosing what deals you\u2019re going to buy, running your business in general?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
The first thing is, and I call it the last life philosophy, it\u2019s my last life, so I get to do this right this time, I think of it like this, one, I\u2019m going to guard my time really a lot, a lot more than I could make more money if I wanted to, but I\u2019m much more interested in setting up my deals in a way that I don\u2019t have to spend a lot of time, day-to-day working on them. That\u2019s not, I can never get to where I don\u2019t pay attention to them or don\u2019t care about them, because if I do that, then they\u2019re not going to work out. I know this, but I can mitigate the amount of time that I spend on it. That\u2019s the first strategy.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And then the second thing is, if it\u2019s a really big problem, I have to see a clear path to victory or I\u2019m not going to be interested in it. Some stuff it\u2019s just too hard to deal with and sometimes you just got to cut your losses. I\u2019m a big fan of selling your problem property. If you\u2019ve got a property that\u2019s bugging you and it\u2019s causing you a lot of trouble, get rid of that thing, even if it\u2019s your only property. It\u2019s a lot easier when you have a bunch, but if you only have one, it\u2019s still better to get rid of it than try to fix it, because I may sell it to one of you guys and you might have a different process that fixes it and it might be a great deal for you, it just didn\u2019t work for me.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. That\u2019s such a great principle.<\/p>\n

Dave:
No one says that, but it\u2019s so brilliant because the whole reason we\u2019re buying real estate is to have a better life. It doesn\u2019t make any sense if you\u2019re doing it to have this big balance sheet so you can say, \u201cI have another 50 doors.\u201d This is how many doors I have becomes everybody\u2019s metric, but 50 doors on the wrong property can be 50 headaches that you don\u2019t need.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. And listen, I hear these people, and I go to these seminars sometimes and people are like, \u201cI have 1000 doors.\u201d And then you find out they\u2019re a limited partner and they own a 10th or a percent or something. That\u2019s cool, whatever. It works for them, it\u2019s fine, but for me, if I was going to ask someone and I never would because I don\u2019t think it\u2019s anybody\u2019s business really, I\u2019ll be like, \u201cWell, really how much money do you make? Are you paying your bills? And do you have to show up to work?\u201d Because that\u2019s the metric that matters to me. I think the secret to life is buying back your time as soon as possible.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I stole that from a guy I interviewed on one of my podcasts, his name is Dr. Tony Pinellas, but when he said that, I went, \u201cHoly cow, that\u2019s amazing. That is the secret to life. Buy back your time so you can do what you want to do with your time.\u201d And then you can do things give more, help more people. You can\u2019t do that stuff, if you have to struggle to pay your bills, you can\u2019t help people. And the world, it does rewards value. The more value you give, the better off you are, the better off the world is.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
What do you see is in the future for you? Where are you headed in the future? How big do you want to go now that you pay your bills, it sounds like, you got some money coming in, do you keep growing or do you go and shift focus?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
A couple things. One, when I first quit working, I quit at 2017. So I literally went from bankrupt to retired in seven years, actually about six and a half. And my goal have been to retire by 40. So when I went bankrupt, I was like, \u201cWow, that\u2019s not going to happen, I\u2019m 32.\u201d But I still did it, squeaked it in before 40. That was pretty cool. But I got bored really fast. I was sitting on the beach, actually was at a pool and I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad for like the 9,000,000th time in my life. And I was sitting there and I was like, \u201cWell, other people should hear about this.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
So I started doing trainings and going to events and talking to people and just going to network stuff and telling people. And that\u2019s when I got into syndicating. I didn\u2019t really do it because I wanted to grow as much as I wanted to help other people get into investing. And that\u2019s been an amazing journey in and of itself. It\u2019s been a lot of fun.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
What would you consider your superpower is?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I\u2019m really good at structuring deals like the Sideways Eight thing, I forget what we were calling it already, Side Eight strategy?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Side Eight.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
But no one else does that apparently except for me and the people I\u2019ve told about it, but stuff like that, it\u2019s comes from, I think, combination of being in a really bad spot and not having an option. And also having my background in law, to David\u2019s point earlier, that\u2019s really useful. And when you combine those things and you get a little creative, that really helps. So that super power, probably just taking complicated things, simplifying it in a way that people can understand it and projecting it out there to make it work for everyone.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I love it. I love it. And you said syndicating, so I\u2019m assuming that you do more than just\u2026 you\u2019re not just doing that Side Eight where you bring in three partners. For those who don\u2019t know what that syndication is, can you walk through what that is and how your syndications typically look and what you\u2019re buying there?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah, sure. I\u2019m actually buying the same kind of stuff. Now, this is very unusual for syndication. Most of the syndicators are pooling people\u2019s money, because really what a syndication is, it\u2019s like you just take a syndicate or a group of investors, you put their money together and you buy something. From a technical perspective, if the three of us go out and buy something, it\u2019s a type of a syndication. But the kind that really matters is when you start raising money from passive investors, at that point, it becomes a security and there\u2019s all sorts of legal implications to that, so people need to get good legal advice.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And I\u2019m certainly not giving that right here, even though I maybe an attorney in some jurisdictions, but pooling money to buy deals. And so what I\u2019ll do is, I might find a deal and I might just bought one, and so I don\u2019t have any of my own cash and maybe one of my investors is like, \u201cI can\u2019t really take it down all by myself.\u201d So we look at it and go, \u201cHey, we need a million bucks.\u201d So we\u2019ll get like 10 people to put in 100,000 each and then we\u2019ll keep a piece of it for putting the deal together and they\u2019ll each get a percentage of it for their investment. That\u2019s really what a syndication is, and we still are targeting that.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Those are usually a little bit bigger, but it\u2019s still that medium in multifamily, medium multifamily, 25, 30 units. So, that\u2019s where we start on that. And we\u2019ve done a couple of commercial buildings that way too like a strip mall and an office building. I don\u2019t think I\u2019d buy another office building. Fortunately we have it under contract to sell, so our investors are going to do well on that one, but I don\u2019t think I\u2019d buy another one at this point because their market\u2019s goofy on that with COVID and everything.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. I can totally see that. Where are you buying at?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Those are both in Chattanooga. Again, another one of my core investment principles is, you have to know your market. If you don\u2019t know what your market, that\u2019s how you get an unfair advantage actually. When we talk about unfair advantages, if you can buy something and you know more about the market than everyone else or just in most people, you can, I think I heard David say this a long time ago on a podcast, if you can actually be the expert on a specific subset of your market, I can be the best guy at buying 10 to 20 unit buildings in Chattanooga, I know I can do it because there\u2019s not that much competition. And then I get unfair advantage over the market because of that.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Well, you\u2019re about to have a lot of competition now that you just said that on the biggest real estate podcast.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
That\u2019s all right. I\u2019m going to move and find a new market. It\u2019ll be all right. We won\u2019t tell.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Can you talk, and don\u2019t mind the baby talking in the background. Hi wild man, what\u2019s going on? Wild man just came in to say hi. But can you talk real quick about, when you say know your market, what do you mean?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Part of it is just you have to have, and I\u2019m not expert, out of state investing like David is. So I apologize for if I simplify this, but the way I look at it is, I think you have to know enough about the market that you can see if a deal makes sense or not. You need to know what the rents are, you need to know what the trends are in that market. Because some things can look really good on paper, especially from the distance, and then you drive the market and you\u2019re like, \u201cWhoa, this neighborhood\u2019s not as good as I thought it was.\u201d So it\u2019s about really just getting a deep breadth of knowledge about your local market.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I\u2019m a big fan in local investing, but even when I do invest out of state and I invest in a few other markets now, I spend a lot of time in those markets. I invest in Michigan, but I\u2019m from Michigan, to me, it\u2019s not rocket science. The reason I pick the markets I\u2019m in, I like the metrics, I like the growth. Like Chattanooga, I moved here partly because I knew it was a good market, but I didn\u2019t buy real estate in Chattanooga from Michigan, I moved to Chattanooga and got to know it. And in fact, I took a job as an Uber driver so I could drive around and see where people that were riding in Ubers were getting picked up from.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And it turned out, these guys were getting picked up from apartment complexes. So I started seeing all these small apartment complexes and I was like, \u201cWhoa, I didn\u2019t know that was there, I didn\u2019t know that was there.\u201d And that stuff, that kind of knowledge is really helpful.<\/p>\n

Dave:
But here\u2019s the thing, Jeffrey, if I wanted to invest in Chattanooga, I wouldn\u2019t have to fly there. I would just invest with you because you do know Chattanooga.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
That\u2019s my strategy in Michigan actually. I invest with my property manager friend that I\u2019ve known for 20 years and I know he knows what he\u2019s doing.<\/p>\n

Dave:
And that\u2019s why in the Long-Distance, I hammer how important your property manager is. They are not a person that collects checks and fills vacancies, they are a Sherpa that leads you through some of these areas because they know better than anyone. Brandon manages his own properties. He can tell you where he likes investing and owning and where he does not because property managers cannot avoid the pain of real estate investing. They\u2019re the first people that hit it. I think that\u2019s brilliant.<\/p>\n

Dave:
This one other things that I use them for the most is their insight in a market, no one\u2019s going to know it better. I just want to say, you\u2019re making my point that you shouldn\u2019t invest in market you don\u2019t understand unless you have a person who you trust that does understand it.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Oh, I agree with you completely. That\u2019s what I said. I simplified a lot more, but I actually think your solutions are very elegant because it is really about that team on the ground, and the property manager to me as the number one person on that team because they also can bring you deals. They know when people are getting ready to sell, they know what things have traded for, they know what rents are. So much knowledge in property management<\/p>\n

Dave:
I\u2019m going to tiny quick tip to what you\u2019re saying. People don\u2019t understand, there\u2019s two reasons that people get into the property management business. The first is they want to make money, and God bless you for trying to make money in property management. They\u2019re doing God\u2019s work. It\u2019s a very, very hard business to run a margins. The second reason is that they know they\u2019re not going to make a lot of money, but they\u2019re trying to get to the front of the funnel. They\u2019re finding opportunities when the landlord doesn\u2019t want to own the property anymore, they either sell it through that property manager\u2019s real estate company, or they buy it themselves.<\/p>\n

Dave:
And you hit the nail on the head, you find deals through property managers. And I probably shouldn\u2019t be saying this because it\u2019s going to hurt my own method in a lot of ways, but if you want to find off market stuff, that\u2019s the number one best place to go to right now..<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I 100% agree with that. And that\u2019s why I partner with them because then you get to the front of the funnel, because you know if a property manager is also an investor and they almost all are, they still take the first crack at it. It\u2019s when they don\u2019t want to buy it that you find out about it. And that\u2019s still better than waiting until it gets listed on MLS or something a lot of times, but it\u2019s definitely good to be at the front of the funnel.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yes, it\u2019s really, really smart. I\u2019ll ask you both good question, but I\u2019ll start with you, Jeff, what would you recommend, for somebody listening to this show right now going, \u201cWell, I just don\u2019t know what market to go to once I pick that market.\u201d Give me some tangible steps to learn that market. Should they become an Uber driver, drive around? Or what\u2019s some tangible stuff they can do.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Well, I don\u2019t think everyone\u2019s going to do it the way I did, which is actually moved to the market and drive around as an Uber driver, but that does work.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It does. And you know what? It also shows, I just want to call this out, it shows a level of dedication that most people won\u2019t do. They say, \u201cI will do anything to be financially free. I will do anything.\u201d \u201cWell, move across the country and go to a market that\u2019s amazing and then learn everything you can about it.\u201d \u201cWell, I\u2019ll do almost anything.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I had a really big advantage then I got sick and I thought I was going to die, so I was hanging and motivated, but try to avoid the chemo, that\u2019s the first step to finding the right market. And then step two is, look for a market where there\u2019s growth. One metric I think is really interesting, and one of the things I\u2019m most happy about being in Tennessee forest, that we have a net migration of U-Haul Truck. So U-Haul publishes this thing where they say, \u201cThis is where the most U-Haul trucks go.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And so as a consequence, if you want to move out of Chattanooga, super cheap to run a U haul, because they\u2019re basically subsidizing you to move the truck away from here because they just build up here because people want to move here. So if you see U-Hauls building up in the neighborhood, that\u2019s a good sign, but also job growth. This stuff you can buy the stats on this, job growth, diversity of employment and population growth, because at the end of the day, population needs to live somewhere, so that\u2019s going to drive rents forever. If the population is growing, probably it\u2019s going to be fine.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s so good. One of things you said earlier is something that I\u2019ve been doing lately a few times, we had Feras from Disrupt Equity on the show back a few months ago maybe, I\u2019ve partnered with Whitney Sewell who is another investor. So what we\u2019re doing is very similar to what you\u2019re doing in that I don\u2019t know Houston and I don\u2019t know Colorado market very well. So I\u2019m partnering with these companies who are the best in that area, one of the best operators. And in the example of Disrupt and Feras down in Houston, they also are a massive property manager there.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
And so it\u2019s funny that you say that, because I don\u2019t even know if I did it deliberately with the property management side of that, but it sure does work well, because if I can\u2019t be the smartest one in the market, I\u2019m going to find out who is the smartest one in that market and we\u2019re just going to partner together. It\u2019s a win-win.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And the thing is, I didn\u2019t do it deliberately either. I like to pretend I did, but it really was, I knew these guys were doing a good job on stuff and I was like, \u201cI want to be partnered with them.\u201d<\/p>\n

Brandon:
That\u2019s what a lot of actually stuff, for example, my entrance in the house hacking, I had no idea that was going to be a thing or that people did that. In the very beginning, I was 21 years old, I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, I got to live somewhere. If I live in a duplex, I can make the mortgage from the other unit.\u201d And then burrow was a complete accident, it was just me trying to flip a house, couldn\u2019t sell it, so I just refinanced it. And a lot of the things in life, we may be looking back\u2026 There\u2019s a great quote from Steve Jobs, it says, \u201cYou can\u2019t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards, so you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future.\u201d<\/p>\n

Brandon:
And I\u2019ve always loved that quote of, looking back, I can see all these things that makes me look really, really good, and David probably looks really, really smart when it comes to figuring out the long distance investing game and the BRRRR thing. We just do stuff, and then make mistakes.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Literally, I couldn\u2019t buy in California and I was like, \u201cWell, where can I buy? I can buy in Arizona.\u201d I didn\u2019t even know you weren\u2019t supposed to do that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
You do it.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
That\u2019s how I ended up with my Side Eight Investing, is I didn\u2019t know, I was just like, \u201cHow do I do it? I\u2019ve just got to do it. And this is the way that it works for me.\u201d And I\u2019ve been able to repeat that over and over, because that\u2019s the one thing, when you find something that works, just keep doing it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Just keep doing it.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Do you hear that newbies? Quit overthinking it. The most successful people didn\u2019t think enough, and that\u2019s why they did well. I was just in Steamboat with Brandon at a GoBundance Event, and we were sitting and talking and I was saying, \u201cYou know, it\u2019s funny as much real estate we own and we talk about it, we make our living off it, to this day, there\u2019s still not a deal I buy that I don\u2019t wonder, did I pay too much? Is this the wrong time to buy it? Is this a bad deal? What if it goes wrong? And there\u2019s not a deal that I\u2019ve bought that I didn\u2019t look back and say, \u201cI\u2019m so glad I bought it. I wish I would have bought more.\u201d<\/p>\n

Dave:
It never goes away, you always have that fear that says, \u201cBe careful,\u201d because you can\u2019t see how the dots connect. But when you look back, you always see how they connect. And so I hope that encourages the people that are listening and you\u2019re looking at a deal and it makes sense, but you got that little thing going on in your head that\u2019s like, \u201cBut what if?\u201d And it\u2019s bringing up ridiculous ideas. All of us, I would bet Jeffrey still has that when his buying, \u201cWhat if I lose my investor\u2019s money? What if it doesn\u2019t work out? What if it has mold and I don\u2019t know?\u201d It never stops.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. And actually, I think if you don\u2019t have that, then you\u2019re not actually doing anything. I know that sounds weird, but if you don\u2019t have any fear, then that means you\u2019re not stretching yourself at all. And there\u2019s something about just doing things that are a little bit hard, that\u2019s where all the rewards come from. So if you don\u2019t have any fear, then you\u2019re probably not doing anything hard. And if you\u2019re not doing anything hard, you\u2019re working at McDonald\u2019s flipping burgers for the rest of your life.<\/p>\n

Dave:
As Brandon would say, so good.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I don\u2019t say that. What? What are you talking about?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Look at me, I love McDonald\u2019s. What can I say?<\/p>\n

Dave:
Not McDonald\u2019s, I mean the comment you made.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Oh, sorry. I thought Brandon was a big fan of McDonald\u2019s. He doesn\u2019t look a McDonald\u2019s guy, but I know the mint Starbucks thing or whatever you do.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Today, it\u2019s a cappuccino from Akamai Coffee, is probably the greatest drink on the planet. So if you guys ever in Maui, Akamai Coffee cappuccino.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
All right. I\u2019m hopping a plane, I\u2019m on the way.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Anyway, we got to start getting out of here in a few minutes, but I just want to say you\u2019re an inspiration. I love hearing your story, everything you\u2019ve done, everything you\u2019re doing, you\u2019ve got so much to teach. So I hope people follow you, and we\u2019ll ask you in a minute where they can. But anyway, I just want to give you just-<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Thank you.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Good job, man, thank you. You\u2019re awesome. David, any questions before we head to the famous four?<\/p>\n

Dave:
I want to clarify the point you made that if it isn\u2019t scaring you, maybe you shouldn\u2019t do it. That\u2019s a common thing, a lot of actors are saying that now, and it became kind of cheesy, but there is an element I think of really insightful truth in there. When I gave that TED Talk, I was talking about the way you build skills. And part of the talk was this idea, they talk about it in The ONE Thing in chapter two, that a one inch domino can knock down another domino that\u2019s one and a half times bigger. And one of the ways we cheat ourselves in life is we stop going for bigger dominoes, we get comfortable doing the same thing.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Brandon talks about just quit buying a single family house every time, you use the stack, you can get a one house, and then a duplex, and then a fourplex. And the fact that you\u2019re trying to knock down something bigger than you did last time will absolutely create fear that maybe this is something you can\u2019t do. And that stops a lot of people from moving forward, but really, if you ever want to be growing, if you want to get the best out of yourself, there has to be a point where you put enough weight on the bar that you don\u2019t know if you can lift it or maybe you fail. You can\u2019t lift it without a spotter.<\/p>\n

Dave:
But I would say that probably the times where I need a spotter to help me lift the weight are the times I\u2019m getting the strongest, pushing myself past what I could do and leaning on someone else. And it\u2019s going to feel scary, but that\u2019s why you should do it. You made that point, Jeff, and I don\u2019t want to gloss over that because-<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I think that\u2019s right. There\u2019s nothing wrong with doing deals that you\u2019re comfortable with. Just to be clear, it\u2019s okay, but for somebody like me, I want to be growing. If I want to grow, I have to push myself. The scariest deal I did is still the $30,000 condo that I would be able to do without even hesitating right now, because I\u2019d be \u201cWhatever.\u201d But it was really scary because it was the first one. And so it does get easier. But every time I push myself just a little bit, it\u2019s like, \u201cOoh, am I sure I want to do this?\u201d Even moving to Chattanooga was like, \u201cDo I really want to move to Chattanooga? Maybe I should just stick around, Grand Rapids is pretty nice.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I think that\u2019s true in everything in life, just push yourself a little bit, you\u2019re going to feel that fear, and then you know you\u2019re going in the right direction.<\/p>\n

Dave:
That\u2019s the hero\u2019s journey. You don\u2019t find the parts of yourself that are the best without going past what you\u2019re comfortable with and it makes you dig deeper because you don\u2019t have enough to accomplish what you\u2019re trying to in the current version of you. Every time Brandon rolls jujitsu or I do, you\u2019re reminded that you\u2019re not good enough, and that you that you are right now cannot accomplish that task. And so it forces you to get a skill, get more in shape, learn something, improve yourself in some way. And literally, real estate is one of the easiest ways to force growth in your life because you just buy the pursuit of it.<\/p>\n

Dave:
It forces you to realize, \u201cI didn\u2019t know as much as I thought I did,\u201d or, \u201cI need to live beneath my means and be a little better with managing my money so that I can have more in reserves.\u201d I think that\u2019s one of the reasons we\u2019re addicted to it is because you can\u2019t succeed in this without growth being tied to it.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. Really good stuff, man. Well, let\u2019s head over to the last segment of the show. This is our-<\/p>\n

Speaker 5:
Famous Four.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
The Famous Four is a part of the show we ask the same four questions every week to every guest. Jeff, I know you\u2019ve heard them before, so you should be ready for the Famous Four. Number one, you like that line?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I am ready, for what it\u2019s worth.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Now I get, I\u2019m a poet and I didn\u2019t realize it. Number one, favorite real estate related book?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I know everyone says Rich Dad, Poor Dad so I\u2019m going to skip that because that would probably be the answer. But I like the book, What Every Real Estate Investor Should Know About Cash Flow\u2026 And 36 Other Key Metrics by Frank Gallinelli.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. Frank Gallinelli. He was on our show years ago.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And I\u2019m telling you, this book is fantastic. It breaks down every metric that I think about and some I never heard of. And it was recommended to me actually, ironically by, because I\u2019m weird and I still go to school even though I work for myself, I took some online Harvard class and the professor was like, \u201cYou should read this book.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay.\u201d I read it, and I was like, \u201cThis is amazing.\u201d I liked it so much, I made a YouTube video, written a book review of the book because that\u2019s how crazy I am about this book. It\u2019s the only time I\u2019ve ever made a book review YouTube video, but it\u2019s out there. So people should definitely read that.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
It was a phenomenal, I read it before I got into real estate. We recorded with Frank Gallinelli way back on episode four of the BiggerPockets Podcast. Where we are? Like mid-500s now?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
That\u2019s interesting. I don\u2019t remember that. And I started at number one and worked my way up.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. I would have blacklisted that one. That was in the days when me and Josh were like, \u201cHey Josh, how are you doing today?\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And I think number three was, I don\u2019t know if he was number three or four, five, somewhere around there you interviewed somebody that didn\u2019t talk about real estate the whole time. Do you remember that? Like a financial planner or something?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. Talking about death, was planning for death-<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Just like that, and nothing to do with real estate.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Yeah. We were still trying to figure out what the show is going to be at that point. Ironically, we\u2019ve come back to every other show not talking about real estate, but it took 500 episodes to get back to not real estate. When we realized that sometimes it\u2019s the not real estate people that can teach you the most about real estate, which is what I find fascinating about those Sunday episodes.<\/p>\n

Dave:
And you want to talk about personal growth, go listen to episode two with Brandon and Josh. Both Brandon\u2019s life and just podcasts in general. Brandon just gave in Steamboat the best presentation I\u2019ve ever heard him give. It was even better than what I thought Brandon might grow into in 20 years. He just looked like Michael Jordan in the zone and he could not miss. He commanded the crowd.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I saw he posted on the Facebook and I was like, \u201cMan, I wish I was there.\u201d I actually saw Brandon speak a few months ago, by the time this comes out, it might be a few months ago, and I was really impressed, especially because you just popped in and it was a surprise appearance, I think you just kind of, \u201cI\u2019ll just talk about what I do.\u201d<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I like getting the compliments, but here\u2019s the irony that I want to actually point out of this. So I\u2019ve done a lot of talking over the years, the two speeches which I\u2019ve done the least amount of prep work in my entire life was the one at Steamboat that David you just thought, because I didn\u2019t know I was even talking until I got there. And so I didn\u2019t plan anything, I just sat on stage and talked with Pat Hiban. And the other one was the one where I met you, Jeff at Brad Sumrok\u2019s event where I didn\u2019t plan anything until I was on stage, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh wow, there\u2019s 300 people watching me right now. I guess I\u2019ll talk for a minute.\u201d And I ended up talking for\u2026<\/p>\n

Brandon:
And those are the two people seem to like the most. I\u2019ve worked hours and hours, and hours, and hours on speeches before and it just falls flat, but sometimes in life you just got to wing it. That\u2019s my lesson there.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I actually agree with that. My best talks have always been once where I just was like, \u201cI know what I want to say, I\u2019m just going to say it,\u201d and I didn\u2019t plan how to say it.<\/p>\n

Dave:
But it doesn\u2019t mean to be lazy, it means to always be prepared. What were you going to ask me, Brandon?<\/p>\n

Brandon:
I just think David\u2019s is also my cheerleader. So I\u2019m sure the speech was probably mediocre at best, but I was literally answering questions about my net worth<\/p>\n

Dave:
I was literally in the bathroom stall when Brandon got done, and hearing people talk around me about how good the speech was. That may be TMI, but that\u2019s how powerful I just want people to understand. Rickson Gracie, he has a new book out called Breathe: A Life in Flow. And he is considered one of the best fighters, definitely the best jujitsu practitioners the world ever saw. And part of what made him so great was that he never knew who he was going to fight, when he was going to fight, what style, he just had to be ready that he believed, \u201cMy style is better than anyone\u2019s in the world, and I\u2019ll just beat anyone you put in front of me.\u201d<\/p>\n

Dave:
So he didn\u2019t prepare for the fighter, he prepared by perfecting his craft. And I think that\u2019s why you two do really well when you\u2019re not over-preparing. It\u2019s not that you don\u2019t care, it\u2019s that you\u2019re always caring. You always want to have the answer when someone comes to you and says, \u201cHow did you do this? How does this work?\u201d that\u2019s part of being in a platform like this where people look up to you it\u2019s forces you to sharpen the iron that\u2019s in your life. And that\u2019s one more argument for why you should do things that are hard and scary, because you\u2019re getting on a podcast where we talk about real estate constantly, and at any minute, someone could pull me aside and say, \u201cHow does this thing work?\u201d<\/p>\n

Dave:
And if I don\u2019t have the answer, I look really stupid because I\u2019m expected, it forces me to grow.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Oh yeah. And I\u2019ve been on a lot of podcasts, but I don\u2019t normally get nervous on, but I get nervous listening to you guys. I\u2019m not going to lie, you guys are a big deal. So thanks for having me.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
We show up late without cameras, microphones working and you very graciously dealt with about 30 minutes of tech issues this morning. So, thank you.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
It\u2019s all right.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Question number two, moving on from the mutual admiration society.<\/p>\n

Dave:
What is your favorite business book?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
It\u2019s still Rich Dad, Poor Dad, but if I don\u2019t count that one, Total Recall actually by Arnold Schwarzenegger.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Really?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yes. And ironically, I heard about this book on your show, I think it was like 400 episodes ago so you may not remember it, but I think it\u2019s the best mindset book I\u2019ve ever read. And in real estate and business in particular, it\u2019s really about mindset. It\u2019s amazing. The guy tells his story about how he went from being a poor person who didn\u2019t speak English and the Hills of Austria to becoming the best body build in the world, the biggest action star in the world, the Governor of California. And everything boiled down to one thing and that was, he just reached refused to accept that whatever he wanted wouldn\u2019t happen.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
He first heard about the Mr. Universe Contest when he was 16, he\u2019d never lifted weights before and he goes, \u201cI will be Mr. Universe.\u201d That\u2019s it, it\u2019s just, \u201cI will. I\u2019m not going to consider anything else.\u201d And the greatest part about it is it\u2019s almost a real estate book because he made his first million in apartment complex investing.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Is in Southern California, right?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yup.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Crazy. I love it, man. I\u2019ll read it yet, so I will.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Next question, what are some of your hobbies?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Well, I love traveling. I think I alluded to that before, but honestly, my biggest hobby, and this is going to sound so weird is helping people figure out what they want in life and helping them achieve that. That\u2019s going back to my last life philosophy, I feel like I\u2019ve had this life experience that allows me to go to people and go, \u201cHey, you know what, if I can never have bad days, so can you.\u201d And not everyone has the story that they can back that up. And so I feel like I almost owe it to the world to do it. So I just love to get out, and I\u2019ll go to a caf\u00e9 and the person behind the counter will say, \u201cOh, how are you doing today?\u201d And I\u2019ll be, \u201cI never have bad days.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
And they\u2019ll say something like, \u201cOh, that must be nice.\u201d I\u2019ll be like, \u201cIt is, and you can do it too.\u201d So that\u2019s my biggest hobby, I think, is just trying to tell people how to live their life, which is when you say it like that, it sounds really bad. It sounds like I\u2019m telling them what to do, but the reality is, I just want to help people wherever I can. That\u2019s what I focus on these days mostly.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Awesome, man. Awesome. Well, final question from me. What do you think separates successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail or never get started?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
You\u2019re going to think I memorized this answer by the way, but I think it\u2019s taking action. I know people say that all the time, but there\u2019s a quote I love and I did not memorize it. I swear for this show, I\u2019ve known it forever. I think it was Richard Branson, I can\u2019t even verify who said it first, but it\u2019s, \u201cThe difference that separates successful people from those who never succeed is successful people take action,\u201d and this is the key part, \u201cWithout all the possible information.\u201d And that\u2019s the fear thing we were talking about earlier. You have fear because you don\u2019t know everything about what you\u2019re doing, but you got to do it, just got to take action.<\/p>\n

Dave:
That goes back to that Mike Tyson quote, \u201cEveryone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.\u201d He would go into a fight knowing whatever plan they have or whatever plan I have, it often goes out the window the first time something hits you really hard. And I put up an Instagram quote that Brandon says, everyone has self-discipline until the waiter brings chips and saucer to the table, very similar.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
That\u2019s true for me. Mike Tyson, his book is really good too, Undisputed. That audio book is amazing actually.<\/p>\n

Dave:
There\u2019s something very, very powerful about all these successful people like Rickson Gracie, Mike Tyson, Jeffrey Holst, that are all telling us, you don\u2019t have to have all the answers, in fact, you\u2019ll never get them. So if you\u2019re waiting for that to happen, you\u2019ll be waiting for your whole life.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Mike Tyson is somebody who also has some real estate in his career and his portfolio, I believe. And we\u2019d love to have him on the show, so maybe you have good connection to Mike Tyson?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
No. That goes for me too. So I\u2019d love to have him on any show that I\u2019m doing, or if he just wants to hang out with me, anything. So if people know Mike Tyson or Arnold Schwarzenegger, send them my way too.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Hook him up. Arnold is another one. We would love to hang out with Arnold. If they want to come hang out with me and Jeff and Arnold, David might go to camp.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Yeah. I\u2019ll go wherever he is. Brandon and I will meet you, Arnold and Mike wherever you want to say.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
Anywhere you want to go, we\u2019ll get there.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Or Shaquille O\u2019Neal. If anyone has Shaquille O\u2019Neal connection, he\u2019s got a good real estate.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
They\u2019re on our list of people who want to get on the show and connect with Jeff. All right, let\u2019s get out of here fellas. David, why don\u2019t you ask the final question.<\/p>\n

Dave:
Last question of the day, Mr. Holst, where can people find out more about you?<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
I thought about this a lot because I\u2019m everywhere, if they Google me, they\u2019ll find me, but Instagram\u2019s good @jeffreyholst. But my real passion is, like I said, the last life philosophy and I have a Facebook group called Last Life Ever private group. And people can find me there because that\u2019s where I hang out the most actually. It\u2019s a lot of fun and people can come hang out there and they can find me, it\u2019s not hard, I promise. If you Google me, you\u2019re going to find me, it\u2019s not a common name.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
All right. If you Google me, you\u2019ll find me or a skateboarder.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Well, it\u2019s actually really sad when there\u2019s somebody famous with the same name as you. There\u2019s a guy in Sydney, Australia named Jeffrey Holst that\u2019s working on solving cancer, and I\u2019m like, \u201cI hope he doesn\u2019t solve cancer because if he does, then it\u2019d be hard to find me.\u201d But then I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, I have cancer, so maybe I actually do want him to solve cancer.\u201d<\/p>\n

Dave:
There you go. That\u2019s the no bad days, either way, you win.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
No bad day, either way you win.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
That\u2019s right. Either way I\u2019m okay.<\/p>\n

Brandon:
There you go. All right, Jeff. Jeff, this has been phenomenal. Thank you so much. I love chatting with you and I\u2019m excited to see what you had in the future and all the people you\u2019re helping and all the lives you\u2019ve changed today, just thank you.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey:
Thanks so much.<\/p>\n

Dave:
All right, guys. This is David Greene for Brandon \u201cSo Good\u201d Turner signing off.<\/p>\n

Speaker 3:
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